7 ms·

Do people actually think the listed requirements are really requirements when applying for a job? I was always believing that list requirements are just a wis

Do people actually think the listed requirements are really requirements when applying for a job? I was always believing that list requirements are just a wish list, something that the company would like to have in ideal case, but even they don't expect they will find an actual perfect match. The more important thing when reading the job requirements is to figure out what is actually a core requirement that is important for the job, and what can be learned later, and just apply.

rurounijones 5y ago
> Do people actually think the listed requirements are really requirements when applying for a job? When there are two lists in a job description named "minimum qualifications" and "preferred qualifications" I think a significant number of people would think _exactly_ that for the "minimum qualifications" list. Women appear to be much more affected by this which biases job descriptions with ridiculous requirements to men: https://hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-dont-apply-for-jobs-unless-theyre-100-qualified https://hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-dont-apply-for-jobs-unless... Also see the comment by MS employee on the topic of "minimum requirements": https://twitter.com/colinmbrandt/status/1409577979731058699 https://twitter.com/colinmbrandt/status/1409577979731058699
mechEpleb 5y ago
The most important thing is just to apply because unless you're connected, the job search process is much like a lottery.
Filligree 5y ago
That’s why they’re minimum requirements. To filter out people who have no chance of being hired.
speeder 5y ago
I've been applying for jobs for some... years? now. I rarely apply to any position where I don't meet the mininum requeriments. Also I've seen vacancies with huge lists of requeriments, including exotic ones (like being an RPG player) and I meet them all, sent a resume, and didn't got invited to the interview... So I guess that indeed, the requeriments are bullshit.
- phaemon 5y ago
  Your odds of getting an interview don't significantly improve after you meet just 50% of the requirements (40% if you're female): https://talent.works/2018/11/27/the-science-of-the-job-search-part-vii-you-only-need-50-of-job-requirements/ https://talent.works/2018/11/27/the-science-of-the-job-searc...
scioto 5y ago
I've had to lobby to remove several minimum requirements from my company's job listings because, at most, they're a wish list of the perfect developer to walk in the door. And they never do. "And the candidate's name must be Carl because Carl just left, and PMs really got used to calling the Angular person Carl."
- asciimov 5y ago
  You joke, but one place I worked had just fired another "asciimov" for the role i took. The first week I was there, they kept asking if I had another name they could call me as they didn't like the former guy and calling me by name, "asciimov", bothered them.
uxp100 5y ago
I mean, I believe Microsoft has a hard filter where you must fill fill out a questionnaire about the job requirements and if you don't answer yes to a question like "Do you have a masters degree" I don't believe any human ever sees it. At least they turn around the rejection in 24 hours.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> Do people actually think the listed requirements are really requirements when applying for a job? I’m part of a mentoring group for college grads and junior engineers. It’s common for software engineers to assume that there is a clueless (and/or evil) HR person reading these resumes and executing the requirements listing like computer code. if(education.level < MASTERS) then return E_UNQUALIFIED. Even if John Carmack is applying. A lot of them get advice from the internet or their parents that tends to be overly cynical and often dated. When we review resumes we often have to remove Microsoft Word and Excel from the qualifications section of programmer resumes because they heard from the internet or a parent that they’ll be rejected by automated HR software without those keyword. I still see people trying to keyword stuff their resumes with 6pt white text at the bottom (don’t do this) In practice, hiring is hard and successful companies understand that they can’t afford to filter out qualified candidates over arbitrary low-signal missing requirements. I hope nobody really believes that Facebook HR people would reject John Carmack’s resume because it didn’t have a Master’s degree. That’s what Carmack himself is trying to explain. It should also be obvious that Carmack is the definition of an outlier in this scenario.
- aaronfitz 5y ago
  > A lot of them get advice from the internet or their parents that tends to be overly cynical and often dated. When we review resumes we often have to remove Microsoft Word and Excel from the qualifications section of programmer resumes because they heard from the internet or a parent that they’ll be rejected by automated HR software without those keyword. I still see people trying to keyword stuff their resumes with 6pt white text at the bottom (don’t do this) Why is this a bad idea? I've had my resume auto filtered out in the past and the keywords at the bottom seem to have helped. I don't try to hide it in white-on-white text, though. I have an explicit section (though in a very small font) titled something like "automated scanner keywords"

rurounijones 5y ago

> Do people actually think the listed requirements are really requirements when applying for a job? When there are two lists in a job description named "minimum qualifications" and "preferred qualifications" I think a significant number of people would think _exactly_ that for the "minimum qualifications" list. Women appear to be much more affected by this which biases job descriptions with ridiculous requirements to men: https://hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-dont-apply-for-jobs-unless-theyre-100-qualified https://hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-dont-apply-for-jobs-unless... Also see the comment by MS employee on the topic of "minimum requirements": https://twitter.com/colinmbrandt/status/1409577979731058699 https://twitter.com/colinmbrandt/status/1409577979731058699

mechEpleb 5y ago

The most important thing is just to apply because unless you're connected, the job search process is much like a lottery.

Filligree 5y ago

That’s why they’re minimum requirements. To filter out people who have no chance of being hired.

speeder 5y ago

I've been applying for jobs for some... years? now. I rarely apply to any position where I don't meet the mininum requeriments. Also I've seen vacancies with huge lists of requeriments, including exotic ones (like being an RPG player) and I meet them all, sent a resume, and didn't got invited to the interview... So I guess that indeed, the requeriments are bullshit.

phaemon 5y ago
Your odds of getting an interview don't significantly improve after you meet just 50% of the requirements (40% if you're female): https://talent.works/2018/11/27/the-science-of-the-job-search-part-vii-you-only-need-50-of-job-requirements/ https://talent.works/2018/11/27/the-science-of-the-job-searc...

scioto 5y ago

I've had to lobby to remove several minimum requirements from my company's job listings because, at most, they're a wish list of the perfect developer to walk in the door. And they never do. "And the candidate's name must be Carl because Carl just left, and PMs really got used to calling the Angular person Carl."

asciimov 5y ago
You joke, but one place I worked had just fired another "asciimov" for the role i took. The first week I was there, they kept asking if I had another name they could call me as they didn't like the former guy and calling me by name, "asciimov", bothered them.

uxp100 5y ago

I mean, I believe Microsoft has a hard filter where you must fill fill out a questionnaire about the job requirements and if you don't answer yes to a question like "Do you have a masters degree" I don't believe any human ever sees it. At least they turn around the rejection in 24 hours.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> Do people actually think the listed requirements are really requirements when applying for a job? I’m part of a mentoring group for college grads and junior engineers. It’s common for software engineers to assume that there is a clueless (and/or evil) HR person reading these resumes and executing the requirements listing like computer code. if(education.level < MASTERS) then return E_UNQUALIFIED. Even if John Carmack is applying. A lot of them get advice from the internet or their parents that tends to be overly cynical and often dated. When we review resumes we often have to remove Microsoft Word and Excel from the qualifications section of programmer resumes because they heard from the internet or a parent that they’ll be rejected by automated HR software without those keyword. I still see people trying to keyword stuff their resumes with 6pt white text at the bottom (don’t do this) In practice, hiring is hard and successful companies understand that they can’t afford to filter out qualified candidates over arbitrary low-signal missing requirements. I hope nobody really believes that Facebook HR people would reject John Carmack’s resume because it didn’t have a Master’s degree. That’s what Carmack himself is trying to explain. It should also be obvious that Carmack is the definition of an outlier in this scenario.

aaronfitz 5y ago
> A lot of them get advice from the internet or their parents that tends to be overly cynical and often dated. When we review resumes we often have to remove Microsoft Word and Excel from the qualifications section of programmer resumes because they heard from the internet or a parent that they’ll be rejected by automated HR software without those keyword. I still see people trying to keyword stuff their resumes with 6pt white text at the bottom (don’t do this) Why is this a bad idea? I've had my resume auto filtered out in the past and the keywords at the bottom seem to have helped. I don't try to hide it in white-on-white text, though. I have an explicit section (though in a very small font) titled something like "automated scanner keywords"