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We seem to have this pattern everywhere. Any warning signs about potential problems that could potentially endanger human lives get ignored to save costs. Prob

We seem to have this pattern everywhere. Any warning signs about potential problems that could potentially endanger human lives get ignored to save costs. Probability of every single accident is just too low, fix too expensive, and people in charge just decide to ignore it or postpone action. Bug, guess what, there are too many cases of those single low probabilities, so something somewhere has to happen, it's just what and where.

sneak 5y ago
> Any warning signs about potential problems that could potentially endanger human lives get ignored to save costs. That's not always true. There are industries where the the consequences for ignoring warnings are too great and any warning sign in a specific class is a must-handle-as-emergency event (either by law or by liability concerns), such as a commercial pilot showing up for work with even the tiniest signs of intoxication, or a student casually mentioning to a teacher or therapist (mandated reporters) things that could indicate abuse. Bartenders, however, mostly won't go to jail for serving a drink that made someone drunk enough to kill someone with their car minutes later, however. There are certainly gaps.
- lm28469 5y ago
  > such as a commercial pilot I think the whole Boeing scandal of the last years proves the opposite, no industry is safe. I can't find it right now but I remember seeing a documentary about Boeing factory workers reporting issues in the assembly lines and being fired and sued over it. Edit: might have been: https://youtu.be/PdYcJldzOdw https://youtu.be/PdYcJldzOdw
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    If the pilots were at fault, they'd be in jail, but executives are safe.
- jeltz 5y ago
  There was a scandal 20 years ago about intoxicated BA pilots so they did not always take it seriously. It was first when someone made a documentary about it. I am sure there were plenty of ignored warnings before the documentary. https://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=81889&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=81889&page=1
  - sneak 5y ago
    BA took it seriously as soon as it was reported. The article suggests it was a coverup culture within the ranks of staff: > It said drinking was endemic among employees and those who complained were bullied and ostracized for blowing the whistle. Presently, even a casual mention of a pilot drinking near flight time to airline management will ground them for testing. I imagine it was like that, then, too.
bserge 5y ago
Aptly parodied by the Onion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjfrJzdx7DA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjfrJzdx7DA
- donkeyd 5y ago
  Wow, that's just perfect. Many of the old Onion video's are worth viewing even over a decade later.
roenxi 5y ago
There isn't a method to estimate how often a potential warning sign is acted upon appropriately and a risk properly controlled. Engineers keeping things working are very, very rarely in the news. In converse the universe follows laws of cause and effect. Every disaster is presaged by warning signs and could be predicted in foresight. So this pattern is everywhere something goes wrong, but is also quite rare.

sneak 5y ago

> Any warning signs about potential problems that could potentially endanger human lives get ignored to save costs. That's not always true. There are industries where the the consequences for ignoring warnings are too great and any warning sign in a specific class is a must-handle-as-emergency event (either by law or by liability concerns), such as a commercial pilot showing up for work with even the tiniest signs of intoxication, or a student casually mentioning to a teacher or therapist (mandated reporters) things that could indicate abuse. Bartenders, however, mostly won't go to jail for serving a drink that made someone drunk enough to kill someone with their car minutes later, however. There are certainly gaps.

lm28469 5y ago
> such as a commercial pilot I think the whole Boeing scandal of the last years proves the opposite, no industry is safe. I can't find it right now but I remember seeing a documentary about Boeing factory workers reporting issues in the assembly lines and being fired and sued over it. Edit: might have been: https://youtu.be/PdYcJldzOdw https://youtu.be/PdYcJldzOdw
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  If the pilots were at fault, they'd be in jail, but executives are safe.
jeltz 5y ago
There was a scandal 20 years ago about intoxicated BA pilots so they did not always take it seriously. It was first when someone made a documentary about it. I am sure there were plenty of ignored warnings before the documentary. https://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=81889&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=81889&page=1
- sneak 5y ago
  BA took it seriously as soon as it was reported. The article suggests it was a coverup culture within the ranks of staff: > It said drinking was endemic among employees and those who complained were bullied and ostracized for blowing the whistle. Presently, even a casual mention of a pilot drinking near flight time to airline management will ground them for testing. I imagine it was like that, then, too.

bserge 5y ago

Aptly parodied by the Onion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjfrJzdx7DA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjfrJzdx7DA

donkeyd 5y ago
Wow, that's just perfect. Many of the old Onion video's are worth viewing even over a decade later.

roenxi 5y ago

There isn't a method to estimate how often a potential warning sign is acted upon appropriately and a risk properly controlled. Engineers keeping things working are very, very rarely in the news. In converse the universe follows laws of cause and effect. Every disaster is presaged by warning signs and could be predicted in foresight. So this pattern is everywhere something goes wrong, but is also quite rare.