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Empty words and token sanctions are not going to stop the CCP's blatant takeover of HK and trashing of the '1 country 2 systems' agreement. Real action - offer

by bhawks 5y ago

Empty words and token sanctions are not going to stop the CCP's blatant takeover of HK and trashing of the '1 country 2 systems' agreement. Real action - offer US citizenship to Hong Kong era that want it. Then go recognize the Republic of Taiwan as an independent country. Unfortunately the CCP is probably right in their assumption that our politicians are to greedy and spineless to make anything beyond a soundbite gesture. They'll keep expanding their borders, putting minorities in concentration camps, forced organ harvesting and researching interesting new viruses. We're all complicit, sickening really.

lucian1900 5y ago
The local government in Taiwan still claims all of China as its territory, why would they want to be an independent country with only one island?
- bhawks 5y ago
  First off disputed borders are a very common occurrence in geo politics. It rarely prevents country C from recognizing both country A and country B. Outside of the Taiwan case I can't think of a situation where a border claim dispute effectively locked a country out of nearly all international forums (or crippled it to the point of having no significant voice). The situation is very unique to say the least, but let's be frank it is dysfunctional. Secondly reunification by any method along any short or long time frame has only a small amount of public support in Taiwan. (Recent polling: https://jamestown.org/program/taiwanese-public-opinion-on-china-and-cross-strait-relations-the-challenges-for-2021/ https://jamestown.org/program/taiwanese-public-opinion-on-ch...). It has been on a downward trend for quite awhile. Anyone suggesting Taiwan is going to make a forceful play to establish Taiwanese control over mainland china is beyond delusional. Very sadly the likelihood of the inverse happening grows higher day by day (both in CCP leaders talking points and military displays). Tldr I chose the words Republic of Taiwan very deliberately. :).
  - throwaway316943 5y ago
    The trouble seems to be that Taiwan is a government in exile, having lost to the CCP. Recognizing a government in exile is very different from recognizing the independence of state. If they do maintain claims to the rest of Chinese territory they would have to renounce those before being recognized.
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > If they do maintain claims to the rest of Chinese territory they would have to renounce those before being recognized. Which is a PRC red line, oddly enough. Taiwan renouncing its claims would be interpreted as rejecting the one China policy.
      - lucian1900 5y ago
        The PRC also claims the entirety of China, including the island of Taiwan. It’s not at all surprising that two sides of a civil war would claim the same territory. The one thing both the PRC and the KMT agree on is the definition of China. The idea of Taiwan as separate from China is fairly recent and not widespread within Taiwan, at least so far.
        dixie_land 5y ago
        > The one thing both the PRC and the KMT agree on is the definition of China Nit: Republic of China (Taiwan) actually claims more territory than PRC, including the whole country of Mongolia, and some other territories gifted away to the Soviet Union, among others
- LW9ucKsYuvuVeBa 5y ago
  Tsai Ing-wen does not believe that.
rscoots 5y ago
>offer US citizenship to Hong Kong era that want it. Can someone fill me in on how this would causally improve the prospects for Hong Kong's freedom?
- tablespoon 5y ago
  >> offer US citizenship to Hong Kong era that want it. > Can someone fill me in on how this would causally improve the prospects for Hong Kong's freedom? It would improve the prospects for individual Hongkongers' freedom, but it would certainly doom it in Hong Kong itself, and speed its assimilation into mainland China. Asylum policies seem like a tough call sometimes: you help individuals at the cost tightening the grip of those who oppressed them. Who knows, maybe the PRC could end up democratic in 50 years if enough pro-democracy Hongkongers manage to worm themselves into the PRC political system and find themselves in a position to exploit some future opportunity.

by bhawks 5y ago

lucian1900 5y ago

The local government in Taiwan still claims all of China as its territory, why would they want to be an independent country with only one island?

bhawks 5y ago
First off disputed borders are a very common occurrence in geo politics. It rarely prevents country C from recognizing both country A and country B. Outside of the Taiwan case I can't think of a situation where a border claim dispute effectively locked a country out of nearly all international forums (or crippled it to the point of having no significant voice). The situation is very unique to say the least, but let's be frank it is dysfunctional. Secondly reunification by any method along any short or long time frame has only a small amount of public support in Taiwan. (Recent polling: https://jamestown.org/program/taiwanese-public-opinion-on-china-and-cross-strait-relations-the-challenges-for-2021/ https://jamestown.org/program/taiwanese-public-opinion-on-ch...). It has been on a downward trend for quite awhile. Anyone suggesting Taiwan is going to make a forceful play to establish Taiwanese control over mainland china is beyond delusional. Very sadly the likelihood of the inverse happening grows higher day by day (both in CCP leaders talking points and military displays). Tldr I chose the words Republic of Taiwan very deliberately. :).
- throwaway316943 5y ago
  The trouble seems to be that Taiwan is a government in exile, having lost to the CCP. Recognizing a government in exile is very different from recognizing the independence of state. If they do maintain claims to the rest of Chinese territory they would have to renounce those before being recognized.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > If they do maintain claims to the rest of Chinese territory they would have to renounce those before being recognized. Which is a PRC red line, oddly enough. Taiwan renouncing its claims would be interpreted as rejecting the one China policy.
    - lucian1900 5y ago
      The PRC also claims the entirety of China, including the island of Taiwan. It’s not at all surprising that two sides of a civil war would claim the same territory. The one thing both the PRC and the KMT agree on is the definition of China. The idea of Taiwan as separate from China is fairly recent and not widespread within Taiwan, at least so far.
      - dixie_land 5y ago
        > The one thing both the PRC and the KMT agree on is the definition of China Nit: Republic of China (Taiwan) actually claims more territory than PRC, including the whole country of Mongolia, and some other territories gifted away to the Soviet Union, among others
LW9ucKsYuvuVeBa 5y ago
Tsai Ing-wen does not believe that.

rscoots 5y ago

>offer US citizenship to Hong Kong era that want it. Can someone fill me in on how this would causally improve the prospects for Hong Kong's freedom?

tablespoon 5y ago
>> offer US citizenship to Hong Kong era that want it. > Can someone fill me in on how this would causally improve the prospects for Hong Kong's freedom? It would improve the prospects for individual Hongkongers' freedom, but it would certainly doom it in Hong Kong itself, and speed its assimilation into mainland China. Asylum policies seem like a tough call sometimes: you help individuals at the cost tightening the grip of those who oppressed them. Who knows, maybe the PRC could end up democratic in 50 years if enough pro-democracy Hongkongers manage to worm themselves into the PRC political system and find themselves in a position to exploit some future opportunity.