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Lying? Manipulating? What? Is it wrong for a politician to mirror the opinions of their voters? That’s literally what a representative democracy is supposed to

Lying? Manipulating? What? Is it wrong for a politician to mirror the opinions of their voters? That’s literally what a representative democracy is supposed to be. Is it wrong for a person to express their heart felt opinion to folks who like and trust them? Isn’t that what all human communication is? Obama did the right thing, in both 2008 and 2012. If he does 2008 differently, he remains a Senator with no national platform. If he does 2012 differently and doesn’t use his national platform to advocate for gay rights, maybe it takes longer for it to reach 80% support in the general population. If you’d like to actually understand politics, I’d suggest reading The Dictators Handbook or watching this video for the tldr- https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

mensetmanusman 5y ago
The ends don’t justify the means, but you hear a lot of elites talk about tricking the population, because they think the average person is dumb. Then they can get elected and can really change the laws when they are in power to help their subjects who “clearly can’t help themselves”.
- nindalf 5y ago
  Electing a representative who will make decisions on your behalf is what representative democracy is.
  - orestarod 5y ago
    In a representative democracy, do you have a say, control or checks in what decisions those representatives you elected make? Or do they do whatever they want and, tough luck, wait 4 years? Or do they do the opposite of what they promised and tough luck, 4 years again? And the same 2 parties which are essentially the same can get elected and none else, so... tough luck in general?
    - nindalf 5y ago
      If you have a system that consistently makes better decisions and leads to better outcomes for more people across countries and eras, I'd be delighted to hear it.
      - orestarod 5y ago
        You know, China's system made wonders. Maybe everyone should follow it? No other system achieved such an unprecedented economic growth and lifted so many people out of poverty. Freedom? No need, you don't have more in the US anyway. US is just better at PR towards some of its own citizens. Dismissing criticism about our system,in which the officials just do whatever they want without checks and lie every four years to keep doing it, by saying "tell me a better system", implies you have given up. Good for you, but at some point the "best system in the world" was monarchy because the question "can you tell me a better system" had no answer either.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

The ends don’t justify the means, but you hear a lot of elites talk about tricking the population, because they think the average person is dumb. Then they can get elected and can really change the laws when they are in power to help their subjects who “clearly can’t help themselves”.

nindalf 5y ago
Electing a representative who will make decisions on your behalf is what representative democracy is.
- orestarod 5y ago
  In a representative democracy, do you have a say, control or checks in what decisions those representatives you elected make? Or do they do whatever they want and, tough luck, wait 4 years? Or do they do the opposite of what they promised and tough luck, 4 years again? And the same 2 parties which are essentially the same can get elected and none else, so... tough luck in general?
  - nindalf 5y ago
    If you have a system that consistently makes better decisions and leads to better outcomes for more people across countries and eras, I'd be delighted to hear it.
    - orestarod 5y ago
      You know, China's system made wonders. Maybe everyone should follow it? No other system achieved such an unprecedented economic growth and lifted so many people out of poverty. Freedom? No need, you don't have more in the US anyway. US is just better at PR towards some of its own citizens. Dismissing criticism about our system,in which the officials just do whatever they want without checks and lie every four years to keep doing it, by saying "tell me a better system", implies you have given up. Good for you, but at some point the "best system in the world" was monarchy because the question "can you tell me a better system" had no answer either.