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This, and other instances of this scam make me not want to buy anything off Amazon ever again. Where is Amazon in this? Why is this even a thing? Is there no ov

This, and other instances of this scam make me not want to buy anything off Amazon ever again. Where is Amazon in this? Why is this even a thing? Is there no oversight at all? Amazon has now become the Alibaba of the west and it makes me sick to think the once beloved marketplace is now just scamville. I typically buy from sellers websites now and rarely buy off of Amazon but now I feel I need to completely remove Amazon from my options.

jannes 5y ago
Amazon simply is on the same level as eBay now. (No idea about Alibaba.) It’s really sad to see.
- zeusk 5y ago
  IMO eBay is less scammy. I've been using it to buy car parts and it is SO MUCH better than dealing with junkyards (LKQ/Car-Parts websites suck!) and everything that I've got so far including parts from Latvia and Germany have been genuine. eBay too is full of knock-off trash from China but you can easily tell those apart from a real listing most of the time with reviews being unique per listing/seller. And eBay allows for local pickups too!
  - taylorfinley 5y ago
    The one exception to car parts sites being shit is rockauto. Just start typing in the search bar and it figures out what year make model and part you're looking for. Their search experience is light-years ahead of any other auto parts website and might actually be the best product search interface I've found anywhere, hiding out on a car parts site. I highly encourage anyone interested in product search ux to go check it out.
    - function_seven 5y ago
      Just bought a new radiator from Rock Auto. I think it was like 3 clicks to drill down to the part. I just tried your method and was blown away. After I entered the year and make, and was halfway into typing the model, it autocompleted all the way to my trim level and I resumed typing "radia" where it suggested all the relevant things. Hitting enter, I watched it navigate the tree on the left. Small delights like that are worth serious money. I love sites that have such a structured categorization of their items. McMaster-Carr is the gold standard IMO, and RockAuto is pretty close.
      - zeusk 5y ago
        McMaster-Carr is awesome, but I believe they are very business/professional oriented. I needed some brass thread-ins with bolts and they got the job done but now I'm sitting on a minimum sized order of ~50 pieces that I won't be using anytime soon. Maybe I can resell them eBay. Hah.
        technothrasher 5y ago
        McMaster is also typically not cheap. Their claim to fame is that they deliver really quickly. We can get stuff from them same or next day about 95% of the time. For slightly slower delivery but better pricing, Zoro Tools has much of the same stuff.
        jessaustin 5y ago
        For some M16-1.5 bolts I ordered last week (and received the next day), McMaster-Carr was considerably cheaper than any other source. [EDIT:] Although Zoro doesn't seem to carry that size bolt in lots smaller than 25, I'll certainly be checking them for other items in future... thanks for the reference! I just wish they sorted their filter parameters by size rather than by SKU quantity.
        Unklejoe 5y ago
        McMaster is great if you need some obscure bolt, but man do they stick you for it. Want this weird thread bolt? Here's a power plant certified 2mm bolt for $75 each.
        driverdan 5y ago
        I just bought some grade 8 hardware from them. It was cheaper than Fastenal, even with shipping, and they delivered overnight. I had to buy in higher quantities than I needed but the extras will get used at some point.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    Interesting that people have these experiences. I use eBay a lot, mostly buying 2nd hand computer hardware and retro gaming stuff(consoles/games/accessories) and I'd say I have problems with as many as 50% of all my purchases. Some bigger problems where I want to return the item, some smaller ones where I paid extra for postage but it was ignored, that sort of thing. The complaints procedure exist but it's weak(seller sells a "mint condition" genuine PS2 controller, got the controller it's all dirty and with frayed cable, complain to seller, they say "oh it's mint for the age, nothing wrong with it", complain to ebay, seller has a week to respond, nothing, ebay sends me a label to ship it back, have to go to the post office to send it back, wait another week, nothing, ebay finally refunds me my money. You know how it would work with Amazon? I would complain in chat, they would send a courier to pick it up from me the next working day, I would have the money back 5 minutes after the courier picked up the parcel). And then I had someone send me actual expletives-filled email calling me all kinds of worst things in the world because I left a neutral(!!!) feedback on their account, after I paid extra for 1st class postage but they shipped 2nd class. And sellers in general just have no idea about consumer laws(yes, if you sold this item as brand new then you have to accept a 14 day return by law) which leads to arguments and just in general everything being so stressful. I've had over 200 amazon orders last year, didn't have a problem with a single one of them. Few times I wanted to return something they either sent a courier to collect it from me directly, or just refunded me anyway. And few times I ordered from somewhere else(urrghhh.....Currys) the customer service was absolutely abysmal. I'm just not brave enough to order from anyone but Amazon nowadays*. *here in the UK, understand the American Amazon is far worse for <reasons>
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- dawnerd 5y ago
  eBay is better as each seller gets a distinct listing Amazon letting sellers just kinda take over listings is a huge problem and has led to many scams like this and more commonly review scams where they sees the listing with positive reviews for a legit cheap product but swap it out for whatever their money grab is.
  - asddubs 5y ago
    and also just reordering the same product from the same listing and getting a different lower quality version of it
- xenihn 5y ago
  eBay has miraculously become more trustworthy than Amazon for certain products
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Amazon is a more expensive AliExpress.
  - mkoryak 5y ago
    This. I now buy a bunch of stuff from AliExpress because at least they don't even try to pretend that (most of) their products are crap. When I want something cheap and don't care about waiting a month, I go there to get it directly from the source.
- 14 5y ago
  I have always had very good experiences with eBay. Several times I’ve been screwed on Amazon. With eBay I can also add a lot of filters to my search which I like. I can immediately exclude items shipped directly from China. Or search for something within 100km so I know I can just go pick it up. eBay has just been so much better from my experience.
- beardyw 5y ago
  Definitely or worse. I use Amazon as a last resort. eBay is first choice for cheap stuff. For expensive stuff I tend to go for bricks and mortar stores.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  I have never had a bad experience on Ebay. Paypal taking my money hostage is another story.
jn1234 5y ago
Don't worry their listings on Taobao will be accurate because they actually enforce standards.
LegitShady 5y ago
I got rid of prime and have basically stopped buying from them, and don't feel any loss. Usually if they're way cheaper on something it's over the minimum shipping requirement and I end up buying less stuff rather than paying more for stuff. highly recommend it.
theonething 5y ago
It's hard to give up the convenience and fast delivery (with Amazon Prime) though. In my experience, I haven't run into many problems with fraud or fake products (that I know of). I try to avoid third party sellers and only order from Amazon or the seller.
- estaseuropano 5y ago
  Amazon co-mingles inventory so I have in several cases chosen 'sold by Amazon.de' or the brand name seller and gotten what seem to be fakes. This is common for anything mid-range, e.g. good brand-name pots and pans such as WMF, shoes, utensils, ... In other cases I've gotten clearly opened/used items sold as new, e.g. woodworking tools.
- jorvi 5y ago
  I can get pretty quick delivery from a few other companies in my country. What I can't get is the very very lenient warranty that Amazon gives. Other companies will work as hard as possible to make replacing something under warranty as painful as possible. Amazon basically goes 'sure, ok' and either refunds or sends a replacement.
- Tempest1981 5y ago
  Fast delivery seems to have become an addiction in our fast-paced lives. Do we really need that new thing tomorrow? Probably not. Yet we can't delay the gratification.
  - brobdingnagians 5y ago
    I've also found that if I am looking at a longer delivery time then I put more thought into evaluating if I really need the product, or if I could make do with something else, or if there is a better product available elsewhere. I then tend to focus on quality and other fitness for purpose instead of which item is on Prime delivery.
  - nucleardog 5y ago
    I order lots of stuff I need on Amazon. Not want, need, and while it’s not life or death usually I need it sooner rather than later. If I can wait, usually I’d just order it elsewhere (including from somewhere like Taobao or Alibaba/Aliexpress and waiting months for it). And that’s exactly where Amazon is super difficult to replace. The current competition is not other online retailers but coordinating with my wife such that she can look after the kid so I can go sit in traffic for an hour to get to the store and grab a couple of things we need for some quick home repairs, etc.
makeitdouble 5y ago
To note, buying from the sellers website can be a blessing or a curse. It is true in sometimes unexpected ways. For instance some sellers just don't care about notifications; it might be because they usually work with professional buyers who work on a long timescale ("I need it for this quarter") and will contact the seller on a regular basis if they care. Some sellers just don't want to deal with you. I had a "mom and pop" for who my business wasn't really a priority (well, fine), sent me random junk after misreading my order, and it was a PITA to sort the situation. Basically, going out of Amazon (the new Alibaba as you say) is also returning to the Wild Wild West. There is no real choice than to deal with both, but god is it a pain.
- CliffStoll 5y ago
  Having sold Klein bottles from my website for 20 years and from Amazon from 4 or 5 years, here's my experience: - it's way more fun through my Kleinbottle website. I've customized my checkout to what I sell. When there's a problem, it's easier to contact a buyer. - I can show any amount of information on my website; Amazon has 5 bullet points and 1000 characters of description. This, of course, cuts both ways - a quick logical summary helps many people. Long, wordy websites (ahem) can be a problem. - Amazon provides security that you'll get what they've ordered. Buying through my website, well, some people are scared off by its primitive style and mathematical humor. (well, attempted humor). - My credit card processor takes a < 3% haircut. With Amazon, it's 12% plus $40/month. - My customers are my friends. Likely, I'll meet them at a seminar, colloquium, or if they visit the East Bay. I hope they'll remember me by the good service that I try to provide. This tends to be easier when I handle an order through my website.
  - enriquto 5y ago
    Oh man, you are a legend to me! I deeply appreciate you and I remember that the first purchase I ever made on the internet 20 years ago was one of your klein bottles! It was such a scary but amazing first experience. It seemed so magical at the time, to buy an object from the other side of the world! As a teenager I had to convince my dad to use his credit card. We were afraid to send the credit card number by email, and we used a fax machine by your suggestion. The bottle arrived broken and we were dismayed. We sent you a careful report with photos of the packaging and the broken bottle (real film photos, that we had to develop and then scan into the computer to produce an email). You were so kind to send a new bottle and even said sorry. I was amazed by your reply and by the fact that people so far away could be kind to each other. It really blew my mind. At the time, in my country, the internet was seen as a really unsafe place were you were not supposed to ever say your real name. To this day, I keep both bottles you sent as my most prized possessions. The cracked one is actually cooler, and the crack has been growing (you can make the crack grow by pressing slightly with the thumb). In a few years it will break the bottle apart in a topologically interesting way.
fxtentacle 5y ago
Actually, Alibaba appears to have higher standards for their product listings, because pages are never merged. So the review takeover described in this post would not be possible on Alibaba ^_^
- praptak 5y ago
  Which makes you wonder why Amazon keeps this scam-enabling "feature". Do legit sellers really need it that much that Amazon keeps it despite the scams?
  - dpwm 5y ago
    Many legit sellers – big names in all sectors – use the listings merging feature, from kindle books that are almost unreadable to network equipment that has variants with very different qualities. In many cases, Amazon is the seller. As a customer I find it infuriating, and it feels as though it has been made more difficult over time to read the reviews for just the selected product. I suspect that many transactions on Amazon simply would not happen if customers were better informed about what they are buying. I have no doubt that this is true across retailers – just think of all the things that have been hyped and sold that end up in garage sales barely used. It's far more common to see crap with five-star reviews than something great with three- or four-star reviews. The feature kind of makes sense for purely cosmetic changes, like color – but even then it would be useful to have information about the actual variant. I don't think this is some UI problem. I am quite sure it could be solved very quickly by showing reviews for the selected variant first, and then making it clear that other reviews are for other variants. There is a way of somewhat mitigating this merging feature: Don't just look at aggregate review scores. Read the lower-end reviews. If the flaws are petty or expected, then that's great. If your variant is the worst of the bunch, you'll find out. But even with all that, it doesn't sort the takeover problem in the article.
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    Amazon tacitly supports this scam because it only cares about sales. It doesn't really care about the sellers. It also knows that positive reviews have a huge influence in increasing sales, and negative reviews really dampens sales. This is why Amazon also allows what I call Product Page Hijacking. How this works is, Amazon allows multiple models or variants of a product to be listed on the same page, so that all their reviews are mixed together. This deceptive practice hoodwinks many customers. There are 2 kinds of product page hijacking - somewhat obvious ones and the really sneaky kind. Example of a somewhat obvious one - https://imgur.com/OfZLUeL https://imgur.com/OfZLUeL - here, one product page actually lists multiple router models that have different features and configurations. While it is a bit obvious, the buyer still has to carefully read the reviews to figure out what model the review is about. Example of the sneaky ones are products that only partially list their model number, and list and sell slightly different variants of model under a single product page. E.g search for "TP-Link WR841" in https://dd-wrt.com/support/router-database/ https://dd-wrt.com/support/router-database/ - there are 9 variants of the same model (in essence, 9 different models) that are differentiated by a version number (v9, v10, v11 etc. after their model name). But instead of creating a product page for each variant - "TP-Link WR841N v9" or "TP-Link WR841N v11" or "TP-Link WR841N v13" - only one product page is created under "TP-Link WR841N" and all the variants are sold under it. The variations in the models are sometimes not minor - some of the variants have a higher RAM and even totally different CPU! Since all the variants are sold under one product page, the reviews posted are actually for all these different variants. But the buyer will often have no idea of that. And they may not even receive the product they think the reviews are recommending!
Animats 5y ago
"Amazon has now become the Alibaba of the west" Alibaba is much better than Amazon about seller verification. Look up, say, "PC power supply". On Amazon, you're lucky if you get the address of the seller and a product image. Alibaba gives you multiple detailed pictures of the object, including its data plate. You get the full address of the seller, and whether it's the manufacturer or a reseller. There's usually a picture of the factory, info about their annual sales and number of employees, whether that's been verified by a third party, how fast they usually respond to inquries. Sometimes even what production equipment they use. What certifications they have and who does their certifications. Many of those companies will accept an order for one unit.
- sooheon 5y ago
  Yep. You will also often immediately get connected to a sales rep via chat, and they will follow up you all the way through to shipping and for any repeat orders.
- me_me_me 5y ago
  And also, often more then not Amazon listings are just Alibaba's products resales that you can get faster for some stupid high markup.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- azernik 5y ago
  Notably, Alibaba's core business is B2B. Business customers have very little tolerance for bad shipments, and are frequently repeat customers such that they would quickly have left Alibaba if they could not get predictable quality.
- Scaevolus 5y ago
  Alibaba & Aliexpress _do_ have a clone problem, but the notable distinction is that they don't aggressively comingle listings like Amazon does. This means for some common consumer items (fidget spinners, etc.) you'll find a hundred listings with identical images, slightly varying descriptions, and different factories, but you can easily choose which seller to buy from.
brobdingnagians 5y ago
I often find things on Amazon, then go directly to the seller's webpage or search for a book on other bookstores. You can often get it cheaper, and with peace of mind that it isn't counterfeit. Only really buy on Amazon if it really doesn't exist anywhere else and really need it.
Closi 5y ago
This is common across amazon sellers, all major sellers will recycle SKU codes to transfer reviews. Amazon knows about this, it’s everywhere. They could stop it, but presumably it stops reviews being “lost” which helps support their sales.
ljm 5y ago
I went cold turkey on Amazon a few months back; the only thing I've kept is the TV subscription. What I realised is that it was just a dependency because it was so easy to search for and buy stuff. Nowadays I'll buy from a smaller shop if I need something, but it's more likely that I think "do I actually need this?" and say "no."
- prepend 5y ago
  Also, Walmart.com has similar prices and selection. Free shipping is $35 though. I’ve had much better results with Walmart packaging and shipping lately.
  - allochthon 5y ago
    In the US, I prefer walmart.com over Amazon for groceries because they do their usual price vetting, whereas you can end up paying three times the normal price for something on Amazon if you're not careful.
  - csnover 5y ago
    Their return window is 90 days versus Amazon’s 30 and they actually let you schedule the return pick-up date. Also, their Prime-competitor Walmart+ service[0] ($98/year) has no order minimums. [0] https://www.walmart.com/plus https://www.walmart.com/plus
  - fma 5y ago
    I have their Walmart Plus. If I'm buying a major brand item I go to Walmart. 0 chance of knockoffs. I get 2 day free shipping. And - if it's in stock locally, many times they deliver directly from the store and I get it next day (no option to tip...so no pressure there). I use their store delivery option if I'm buying certain groceries or items I need ASAP. Yeah I need to tip - but I consider it me saving gas money/time.
    - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
      > Yeah I need to tip Wal-mart employees don't get tip workers minimum wage. The cost of their service is already priced in.
nabla9 5y ago
Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc. have almost completely automated customer/user service to keep costs down. Their business model depends on that. The consumers are in the position of primitive people in front of their gods. They have to come together and pray for gods to notice them if they want wrongs to be righted. It would be better to solve this through legislation.
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
While I still purchase some things from Amazon, anything that's to be ingested or involves supplying electrical current is a no. It's a sad day when GNC is a more reputable place to shop than Amazon.
TheHypnotist 5y ago
Anything with an unfamiliar and suspicious sounding brand, such as AMVOOM, is a non starter for me. I actually started researching brands.
WesleyHale 5y ago
> Is there no oversight at all? What do you expect from a company who has an automated system to fire employees, and they're notified if the discharge through an app on their phone? There main objective is volume.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago
  I couldn't believe this, but looks like it's true: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-06-28/fired-by-bot-amazon-turns-to-machine-managers-and-workers-are-losing-out https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-06-28/fired-by-... What a trash company.
  - quickthrower2 5y ago
    > “Executives knew this was gonna shit the bed,” this person said. “That’s actually how they put it in meetings. The only question was how much poo we wanted there to be.” They literally are!
HumblyTossed 5y ago
> This, and other instances of this scam make me not want to buy anything off Amazon ever again. Agree. Our family has nearly weened ourselves off of Amazon. We do still buy from there occasionally, but for most things we don't.
okprod 5y ago
Is there no oversight at all? Amazon has now become the Alibaba of the west and it makes me sick to think the once beloved marketplace is now just scamville. This. Most of the time now when I buy from Amazon it feels like buying from a garage sale / flea market. Some examples from my purchases -- 4 pack of AA Eneloops arrived as 2 AAs and 2 AAAs; 2 identical office chairs arrived as 2 different models; Simple Human trash can arrived with 3 softball sized dents in different places; Spigen phone case arrived with some sort of tiny worms/maggots inside a corner of the packaging; Clorox antibacterial wipes arrived in generic packaging containing dry wipes. Porter Yoshida backpack arrived as a similar looking Herschel backpack in the same color. I remember buying from Amazon and getting solid products really really fast; not sure where that's gone. I do use Amazon for the free Whole Foods delivery and that's been OK, though there's very lax usage of temperature-safe packaging for dairy and meat products.
- gabereiser 5y ago
  This has been my experience lately as well. Packaging that looked like it was broken into or returned leaving me to wonder what was left out. I recently bought a GoPro and received a shady sdcard with it (the package comes with one). When I put the microsd card in the sdcard it wouldn’t come out. I threw both away. Packages that were busted up. Packaging that looked like someone else got there first. I’m done. I’m over it. After this mess with Klein Bottles I just deleted the app from my phone. I don’t have prime so it’s not that hard for me to never shop Amazon again.
dalbasal 5y ago
Both Amazon and Aliexpress/baba follow a "this is a city" mentality. Crime and such are understood as statistics, not as a thing happening under their roof. This is a "beef up police funding next cycle" kind of problem. Any one scam might be defeatable, but "scamming exists" seems to be true in any marketplace with enough participants.
throwawayboise 5y ago
I already stopped. I used to be a Prime subscriber, and use smile.amazon.com for charitable benefits. I don't use amazon at all now, because I don't trust that I will get what I think I am paying for.
NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
Most of Amazon's profit isn't from retail, but AWS. Thus, believe it or not, it's a much lower priority. And so many companies from so many industries use them they're effectively boycott proof: https://digitaldimensions.com/blog/big-companies-who-use-aws/ https://digitaldimensions.com/blog/big-companies-who-use-aws...

jannes 5y ago

Amazon simply is on the same level as eBay now. (No idea about Alibaba.) It’s really sad to see.

zeusk 5y ago
IMO eBay is less scammy. I've been using it to buy car parts and it is SO MUCH better than dealing with junkyards (LKQ/Car-Parts websites suck!) and everything that I've got so far including parts from Latvia and Germany have been genuine. eBay too is full of knock-off trash from China but you can easily tell those apart from a real listing most of the time with reviews being unique per listing/seller. And eBay allows for local pickups too!
- taylorfinley 5y ago
  The one exception to car parts sites being shit is rockauto. Just start typing in the search bar and it figures out what year make model and part you're looking for. Their search experience is light-years ahead of any other auto parts website and might actually be the best product search interface I've found anywhere, hiding out on a car parts site. I highly encourage anyone interested in product search ux to go check it out.
  - function_seven 5y ago
    Just bought a new radiator from Rock Auto. I think it was like 3 clicks to drill down to the part. I just tried your method and was blown away. After I entered the year and make, and was halfway into typing the model, it autocompleted all the way to my trim level and I resumed typing "radia" where it suggested all the relevant things. Hitting enter, I watched it navigate the tree on the left. Small delights like that are worth serious money. I love sites that have such a structured categorization of their items. McMaster-Carr is the gold standard IMO, and RockAuto is pretty close.
    - zeusk 5y ago
      McMaster-Carr is awesome, but I believe they are very business/professional oriented. I needed some brass thread-ins with bolts and they got the job done but now I'm sitting on a minimum sized order of ~50 pieces that I won't be using anytime soon. Maybe I can resell them eBay. Hah.
      - technothrasher 5y ago
        McMaster is also typically not cheap. Their claim to fame is that they deliver really quickly. We can get stuff from them same or next day about 95% of the time. For slightly slower delivery but better pricing, Zoro Tools has much of the same stuff.
        jessaustin 5y ago
        For some M16-1.5 bolts I ordered last week (and received the next day), McMaster-Carr was considerably cheaper than any other source. [EDIT:] Although Zoro doesn't seem to carry that size bolt in lots smaller than 25, I'll certainly be checking them for other items in future... thanks for the reference! I just wish they sorted their filter parameters by size rather than by SKU quantity.
      - Unklejoe 5y ago
        McMaster is great if you need some obscure bolt, but man do they stick you for it. Want this weird thread bolt? Here's a power plant certified 2mm bolt for $75 each.
        driverdan 5y ago
        I just bought some grade 8 hardware from them. It was cheaper than Fastenal, even with shipping, and they delivered overnight. I had to buy in higher quantities than I needed but the extras will get used at some point.
- gambiting 5y ago
  Interesting that people have these experiences. I use eBay a lot, mostly buying 2nd hand computer hardware and retro gaming stuff(consoles/games/accessories) and I'd say I have problems with as many as 50% of all my purchases. Some bigger problems where I want to return the item, some smaller ones where I paid extra for postage but it was ignored, that sort of thing. The complaints procedure exist but it's weak(seller sells a "mint condition" genuine PS2 controller, got the controller it's all dirty and with frayed cable, complain to seller, they say "oh it's mint for the age, nothing wrong with it", complain to ebay, seller has a week to respond, nothing, ebay sends me a label to ship it back, have to go to the post office to send it back, wait another week, nothing, ebay finally refunds me my money. You know how it would work with Amazon? I would complain in chat, they would send a courier to pick it up from me the next working day, I would have the money back 5 minutes after the courier picked up the parcel). And then I had someone send me actual expletives-filled email calling me all kinds of worst things in the world because I left a neutral(!!!) feedback on their account, after I paid extra for 1st class postage but they shipped 2nd class. And sellers in general just have no idea about consumer laws(yes, if you sold this item as brand new then you have to accept a 14 day return by law) which leads to arguments and just in general everything being so stressful. I've had over 200 amazon orders last year, didn't have a problem with a single one of them. Few times I wanted to return something they either sent a courier to collect it from me directly, or just refunded me anyway. And few times I ordered from somewhere else(urrghhh.....Currys) the customer service was absolutely abysmal. I'm just not brave enough to order from anyone but Amazon nowadays*. *here in the UK, understand the American Amazon is far worse for <reasons>
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
dawnerd 5y ago
eBay is better as each seller gets a distinct listing Amazon letting sellers just kinda take over listings is a huge problem and has led to many scams like this and more commonly review scams where they sees the listing with positive reviews for a legit cheap product but swap it out for whatever their money grab is.
- asddubs 5y ago
  and also just reordering the same product from the same listing and getting a different lower quality version of it
xenihn 5y ago
eBay has miraculously become more trustworthy than Amazon for certain products
lotsofpulp 5y ago
Amazon is a more expensive AliExpress.
- mkoryak 5y ago
  This. I now buy a bunch of stuff from AliExpress because at least they don't even try to pretend that (most of) their products are crap. When I want something cheap and don't care about waiting a month, I go there to get it directly from the source.
14 5y ago
I have always had very good experiences with eBay. Several times I’ve been screwed on Amazon. With eBay I can also add a lot of filters to my search which I like. I can immediately exclude items shipped directly from China. Or search for something within 100km so I know I can just go pick it up. eBay has just been so much better from my experience.
beardyw 5y ago
Definitely or worse. I use Amazon as a last resort. eBay is first choice for cheap stuff. For expensive stuff I tend to go for bricks and mortar stores.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
I have never had a bad experience on Ebay. Paypal taking my money hostage is another story.

jn1234 5y ago

Don't worry their listings on Taobao will be accurate because they actually enforce standards.

LegitShady 5y ago

I got rid of prime and have basically stopped buying from them, and don't feel any loss. Usually if they're way cheaper on something it's over the minimum shipping requirement and I end up buying less stuff rather than paying more for stuff. highly recommend it.

theonething 5y ago

It's hard to give up the convenience and fast delivery (with Amazon Prime) though. In my experience, I haven't run into many problems with fraud or fake products (that I know of). I try to avoid third party sellers and only order from Amazon or the seller.

estaseuropano 5y ago
Amazon co-mingles inventory so I have in several cases chosen 'sold by Amazon.de' or the brand name seller and gotten what seem to be fakes. This is common for anything mid-range, e.g. good brand-name pots and pans such as WMF, shoes, utensils, ... In other cases I've gotten clearly opened/used items sold as new, e.g. woodworking tools.
jorvi 5y ago
I can get pretty quick delivery from a few other companies in my country. What I can't get is the very very lenient warranty that Amazon gives. Other companies will work as hard as possible to make replacing something under warranty as painful as possible. Amazon basically goes 'sure, ok' and either refunds or sends a replacement.
Tempest1981 5y ago
Fast delivery seems to have become an addiction in our fast-paced lives. Do we really need that new thing tomorrow? Probably not. Yet we can't delay the gratification.
- brobdingnagians 5y ago
  I've also found that if I am looking at a longer delivery time then I put more thought into evaluating if I really need the product, or if I could make do with something else, or if there is a better product available elsewhere. I then tend to focus on quality and other fitness for purpose instead of which item is on Prime delivery.
- nucleardog 5y ago
  I order lots of stuff I need on Amazon. Not want, need, and while it’s not life or death usually I need it sooner rather than later. If I can wait, usually I’d just order it elsewhere (including from somewhere like Taobao or Alibaba/Aliexpress and waiting months for it). And that’s exactly where Amazon is super difficult to replace. The current competition is not other online retailers but coordinating with my wife such that she can look after the kid so I can go sit in traffic for an hour to get to the store and grab a couple of things we need for some quick home repairs, etc.

makeitdouble 5y ago

To note, buying from the sellers website can be a blessing or a curse. It is true in sometimes unexpected ways. For instance some sellers just don't care about notifications; it might be because they usually work with professional buyers who work on a long timescale ("I need it for this quarter") and will contact the seller on a regular basis if they care. Some sellers just don't want to deal with you. I had a "mom and pop" for who my business wasn't really a priority (well, fine), sent me random junk after misreading my order, and it was a PITA to sort the situation. Basically, going out of Amazon (the new Alibaba as you say) is also returning to the Wild Wild West. There is no real choice than to deal with both, but god is it a pain.

CliffStoll 5y ago
Having sold Klein bottles from my website for 20 years and from Amazon from 4 or 5 years, here's my experience: - it's way more fun through my Kleinbottle website. I've customized my checkout to what I sell. When there's a problem, it's easier to contact a buyer. - I can show any amount of information on my website; Amazon has 5 bullet points and 1000 characters of description. This, of course, cuts both ways - a quick logical summary helps many people. Long, wordy websites (ahem) can be a problem. - Amazon provides security that you'll get what they've ordered. Buying through my website, well, some people are scared off by its primitive style and mathematical humor. (well, attempted humor). - My credit card processor takes a < 3% haircut. With Amazon, it's 12% plus $40/month. - My customers are my friends. Likely, I'll meet them at a seminar, colloquium, or if they visit the East Bay. I hope they'll remember me by the good service that I try to provide. This tends to be easier when I handle an order through my website.
- enriquto 5y ago
  Oh man, you are a legend to me! I deeply appreciate you and I remember that the first purchase I ever made on the internet 20 years ago was one of your klein bottles! It was such a scary but amazing first experience. It seemed so magical at the time, to buy an object from the other side of the world! As a teenager I had to convince my dad to use his credit card. We were afraid to send the credit card number by email, and we used a fax machine by your suggestion. The bottle arrived broken and we were dismayed. We sent you a careful report with photos of the packaging and the broken bottle (real film photos, that we had to develop and then scan into the computer to produce an email). You were so kind to send a new bottle and even said sorry. I was amazed by your reply and by the fact that people so far away could be kind to each other. It really blew my mind. At the time, in my country, the internet was seen as a really unsafe place were you were not supposed to ever say your real name. To this day, I keep both bottles you sent as my most prized possessions. The cracked one is actually cooler, and the crack has been growing (you can make the crack grow by pressing slightly with the thumb). In a few years it will break the bottle apart in a topologically interesting way.

fxtentacle 5y ago

Actually, Alibaba appears to have higher standards for their product listings, because pages are never merged. So the review takeover described in this post would not be possible on Alibaba ^_^

praptak 5y ago
Which makes you wonder why Amazon keeps this scam-enabling "feature". Do legit sellers really need it that much that Amazon keeps it despite the scams?
- dpwm 5y ago
  Many legit sellers – big names in all sectors – use the listings merging feature, from kindle books that are almost unreadable to network equipment that has variants with very different qualities. In many cases, Amazon is the seller. As a customer I find it infuriating, and it feels as though it has been made more difficult over time to read the reviews for just the selected product. I suspect that many transactions on Amazon simply would not happen if customers were better informed about what they are buying. I have no doubt that this is true across retailers – just think of all the things that have been hyped and sold that end up in garage sales barely used. It's far more common to see crap with five-star reviews than something great with three- or four-star reviews. The feature kind of makes sense for purely cosmetic changes, like color – but even then it would be useful to have information about the actual variant. I don't think this is some UI problem. I am quite sure it could be solved very quickly by showing reviews for the selected variant first, and then making it clear that other reviews are for other variants. There is a way of somewhat mitigating this merging feature: Don't just look at aggregate review scores. Read the lower-end reviews. If the flaws are petty or expected, then that's great. If your variant is the worst of the bunch, you'll find out. But even with all that, it doesn't sort the takeover problem in the article.
- webmobdev 5y ago
  Amazon tacitly supports this scam because it only cares about sales. It doesn't really care about the sellers. It also knows that positive reviews have a huge influence in increasing sales, and negative reviews really dampens sales. This is why Amazon also allows what I call Product Page Hijacking. How this works is, Amazon allows multiple models or variants of a product to be listed on the same page, so that all their reviews are mixed together. This deceptive practice hoodwinks many customers. There are 2 kinds of product page hijacking - somewhat obvious ones and the really sneaky kind. Example of a somewhat obvious one - https://imgur.com/OfZLUeL https://imgur.com/OfZLUeL - here, one product page actually lists multiple router models that have different features and configurations. While it is a bit obvious, the buyer still has to carefully read the reviews to figure out what model the review is about. Example of the sneaky ones are products that only partially list their model number, and list and sell slightly different variants of model under a single product page. E.g search for "TP-Link WR841" in https://dd-wrt.com/support/router-database/ https://dd-wrt.com/support/router-database/ - there are 9 variants of the same model (in essence, 9 different models) that are differentiated by a version number (v9, v10, v11 etc. after their model name). But instead of creating a product page for each variant - "TP-Link WR841N v9" or "TP-Link WR841N v11" or "TP-Link WR841N v13" - only one product page is created under "TP-Link WR841N" and all the variants are sold under it. The variations in the models are sometimes not minor - some of the variants have a higher RAM and even totally different CPU! Since all the variants are sold under one product page, the reviews posted are actually for all these different variants. But the buyer will often have no idea of that. And they may not even receive the product they think the reviews are recommending!

Animats 5y ago

"Amazon has now become the Alibaba of the west" Alibaba is much better than Amazon about seller verification. Look up, say, "PC power supply". On Amazon, you're lucky if you get the address of the seller and a product image. Alibaba gives you multiple detailed pictures of the object, including its data plate. You get the full address of the seller, and whether it's the manufacturer or a reseller. There's usually a picture of the factory, info about their annual sales and number of employees, whether that's been verified by a third party, how fast they usually respond to inquries. Sometimes even what production equipment they use. What certifications they have and who does their certifications. Many of those companies will accept an order for one unit.

sooheon 5y ago
Yep. You will also often immediately get connected to a sales rep via chat, and they will follow up you all the way through to shipping and for any repeat orders.
me_me_me 5y ago
And also, often more then not Amazon listings are just Alibaba's products resales that you can get faster for some stupid high markup.
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azernik 5y ago
Notably, Alibaba's core business is B2B. Business customers have very little tolerance for bad shipments, and are frequently repeat customers such that they would quickly have left Alibaba if they could not get predictable quality.
Scaevolus 5y ago
Alibaba & Aliexpress _do_ have a clone problem, but the notable distinction is that they don't aggressively comingle listings like Amazon does. This means for some common consumer items (fidget spinners, etc.) you'll find a hundred listings with identical images, slightly varying descriptions, and different factories, but you can easily choose which seller to buy from.

brobdingnagians 5y ago

I often find things on Amazon, then go directly to the seller's webpage or search for a book on other bookstores. You can often get it cheaper, and with peace of mind that it isn't counterfeit. Only really buy on Amazon if it really doesn't exist anywhere else and really need it.

Closi 5y ago

This is common across amazon sellers, all major sellers will recycle SKU codes to transfer reviews. Amazon knows about this, it’s everywhere. They could stop it, but presumably it stops reviews being “lost” which helps support their sales.

ljm 5y ago

I went cold turkey on Amazon a few months back; the only thing I've kept is the TV subscription. What I realised is that it was just a dependency because it was so easy to search for and buy stuff. Nowadays I'll buy from a smaller shop if I need something, but it's more likely that I think "do I actually need this?" and say "no."

prepend 5y ago
Also, Walmart.com has similar prices and selection. Free shipping is $35 though. I’ve had much better results with Walmart packaging and shipping lately.
- allochthon 5y ago
  In the US, I prefer walmart.com over Amazon for groceries because they do their usual price vetting, whereas you can end up paying three times the normal price for something on Amazon if you're not careful.
- csnover 5y ago
  Their return window is 90 days versus Amazon’s 30 and they actually let you schedule the return pick-up date. Also, their Prime-competitor Walmart+ service[0] ($98/year) has no order minimums. [0] https://www.walmart.com/plus https://www.walmart.com/plus
- fma 5y ago
  I have their Walmart Plus. If I'm buying a major brand item I go to Walmart. 0 chance of knockoffs. I get 2 day free shipping. And - if it's in stock locally, many times they deliver directly from the store and I get it next day (no option to tip...so no pressure there). I use their store delivery option if I'm buying certain groceries or items I need ASAP. Yeah I need to tip - but I consider it me saving gas money/time.
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    > Yeah I need to tip Wal-mart employees don't get tip workers minimum wage. The cost of their service is already priced in.

nabla9 5y ago

Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc. have almost completely automated customer/user service to keep costs down. Their business model depends on that. The consumers are in the position of primitive people in front of their gods. They have to come together and pray for gods to notice them if they want wrongs to be righted. It would be better to solve this through legislation.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

While I still purchase some things from Amazon, anything that's to be ingested or involves supplying electrical current is a no. It's a sad day when GNC is a more reputable place to shop than Amazon.

TheHypnotist 5y ago

Anything with an unfamiliar and suspicious sounding brand, such as AMVOOM, is a non starter for me. I actually started researching brands.

WesleyHale 5y ago

> Is there no oversight at all? What do you expect from a company who has an automated system to fire employees, and they're notified if the discharge through an app on their phone? There main objective is volume.

CogitoCogito 5y ago
I couldn't believe this, but looks like it's true: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-06-28/fired-by-bot-amazon-turns-to-machine-managers-and-workers-are-losing-out https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-06-28/fired-by-... What a trash company.
- quickthrower2 5y ago
  > “Executives knew this was gonna shit the bed,” this person said. “That’s actually how they put it in meetings. The only question was how much poo we wanted there to be.” They literally are!

HumblyTossed 5y ago

> This, and other instances of this scam make me not want to buy anything off Amazon ever again. Agree. Our family has nearly weened ourselves off of Amazon. We do still buy from there occasionally, but for most things we don't.

okprod 5y ago

Is there no oversight at all? Amazon has now become the Alibaba of the west and it makes me sick to think the once beloved marketplace is now just scamville. This. Most of the time now when I buy from Amazon it feels like buying from a garage sale / flea market. Some examples from my purchases -- 4 pack of AA Eneloops arrived as 2 AAs and 2 AAAs; 2 identical office chairs arrived as 2 different models; Simple Human trash can arrived with 3 softball sized dents in different places; Spigen phone case arrived with some sort of tiny worms/maggots inside a corner of the packaging; Clorox antibacterial wipes arrived in generic packaging containing dry wipes. Porter Yoshida backpack arrived as a similar looking Herschel backpack in the same color. I remember buying from Amazon and getting solid products really really fast; not sure where that's gone. I do use Amazon for the free Whole Foods delivery and that's been OK, though there's very lax usage of temperature-safe packaging for dairy and meat products.

gabereiser 5y ago
This has been my experience lately as well. Packaging that looked like it was broken into or returned leaving me to wonder what was left out. I recently bought a GoPro and received a shady sdcard with it (the package comes with one). When I put the microsd card in the sdcard it wouldn’t come out. I threw both away. Packages that were busted up. Packaging that looked like someone else got there first. I’m done. I’m over it. After this mess with Klein Bottles I just deleted the app from my phone. I don’t have prime so it’s not that hard for me to never shop Amazon again.

dalbasal 5y ago

Both Amazon and Aliexpress/baba follow a "this is a city" mentality. Crime and such are understood as statistics, not as a thing happening under their roof. This is a "beef up police funding next cycle" kind of problem. Any one scam might be defeatable, but "scamming exists" seems to be true in any marketplace with enough participants.

throwawayboise 5y ago

I already stopped. I used to be a Prime subscriber, and use smile.amazon.com for charitable benefits. I don't use amazon at all now, because I don't trust that I will get what I think I am paying for.

NaturalPhallacy 5y ago

Most of Amazon's profit isn't from retail, but AWS. Thus, believe it or not, it's a much lower priority. And so many companies from so many industries use them they're effectively boycott proof: https://digitaldimensions.com/blog/big-companies-who-use-aws/ https://digitaldimensions.com/blog/big-companies-who-use-aws...