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I imagine the margin isn't there for it, but I wish someone would target the <= 120 square foot market. You would think the cost to build such structure would b

I imagine the margin isn't there for it, but I wish someone would target the <= 120 square foot market. You would think the cost to build such structure would be less because it doesn't need to pass any code and has less features, but for some reason there doesn't seem to be anything between a $2000 tool shed from Home Depot and $45,000 options from companies like Boxabl. The closest I've found is Bunkie which has a Basecamp model but even at its base feature set is still almost $30k when including delivery. I'd have to guess the market just isn't there for it, maybe everyone else just doesn't mind dealing with the building codes and permit requirements for larger units?

benjohnson 5y ago
There's an economic problem with well made smaller homes - they have all the detail of a larger home without the square footage. Hence the cost per square foot is much larger than you would expect.
- pjerem 5y ago
  This ! What I learned during the construction of my home is that the structure is really only one part of a construction. It’s a lot of raw material of course, but relatively cheap one and the construction of the structure is pretty fast. What takes months and a lot of money is just everything else : networks, windows & doors, walls, finishing …
- harmmonica 5y ago
  I’m in the middle of trying to figure this out with a friend by building an off-grid tiny house and this is pretty accurate. With our labor at a nominal rate (30/hr) it’s coming out to about $250 per square foot. We think on the next one we might be able to get down to $200 maybe $175. Interior is not done yet, but exterior is: https://imgur.com/gallery/KbPlbPR https://imgur.com/gallery/KbPlbPR That 250 psf includes everything you need to live from the get go except you have to fill the 50-gallon water tank.
- ctdonath 5y ago
  I’ve heard an aphorism to wit: length is cheap, corners are expensive.
lovich 5y ago
There’s only going to be two types of customers for that. The Uber rich who can afford spending multiple thousands of dollars in what’s effectively a private hotel room you can install wherever you have land, and the extremely poor who will live in them because it is the maximum they can afford. The negative PR from the latter set of clients can’t possibly be worth how much margin they can get from the former, especially when hotels exist in every city, town, and village. There’s still probably a market for something that size from people who can afford 30k+ to handle the static costs of building a luxury cabin in the country and are still price conscious enough to want to limit how much they spend on building. It’s extremely unlikely that there’s a market for deplorable houses this size that also fits in a middle class budget like 2k would
- stickfigure 5y ago
  > The Uber rich who can afford spending multiple thousands of dollars in what’s effectively a private hotel room In the vast majority of the US, these are called "cabins" and it is very common for people with very modest means to build them for recreation. Outside of urban areas, you don't have to be rich to own land.
rambambram 5y ago
Don't know why you're down voted. I've looked into my fair share of tiny houses and vanlife builds, and they all have one thing in common: it's either amateuristic (don't get me wrong, I love it, but the quality and looks ain't there), or it's superdeluxe comfy/beautiful and completely forgetting about all the hassle around it. I mean, one needs land and permission to put a 'house' somewhere. There seems nothing in between. So now I'm looking into bicycle caravans. One can just put 'm in the woods, nobody finds out (and if they do, so what), it costs basically nothing, you can fix it yourself, etc. I might post my current bicycle caravan project to HN soon.
Johnythree 5y ago
The problem is your assumption that "it doesn't need to pass any code". It varies with location but in general you first need a Building Permit, then a Certificate of Occupancy" before you can live in it. And of course for either, the dwelling has to meet local codes.
- coderintherye 5y ago
  Incorrect. This is not an "assumption". Though I'll admit my comment is U.S. specific. Read up on your state and county laws, there are many states and counities in the U.S. where structures <= 120 square feet require no permits, no certificates, no regulation at all. Also no one mentioned living in one.
zie 5y ago
RV's & trailers are right @ 120sq ft usually. Pick 1 from any of the few manufacturers and enjoy life. There is even such a thing as a "destination trailer": https://www.keystonerv.com/rv-type/destination-trailers https://www.keystonerv.com/rv-type/destination-trailers which almost exactly describes what you are looking for. Price: $30->50k brand new. Used models cheaper.
stickfigure 5y ago
Look for wood cabin kits, something like this: https://bzbcabinsandoutdoors.net/log-cabin-kits/escape/ https://bzbcabinsandoutdoors.net/log-cabin-kits/escape/ Not well insulated but cute and cheap and makes a cozy little spot you can escape to. Obviously not for living, but what do you want for 120sqft? Those Bunkies are all well under 120sqft and wouldn't need permits here in Solano county. Actually they could be a bit bigger; I'm looking for literal 12' x 10'.

benjohnson 5y ago

There's an economic problem with well made smaller homes - they have all the detail of a larger home without the square footage. Hence the cost per square foot is much larger than you would expect.

pjerem 5y ago
This ! What I learned during the construction of my home is that the structure is really only one part of a construction. It’s a lot of raw material of course, but relatively cheap one and the construction of the structure is pretty fast. What takes months and a lot of money is just everything else : networks, windows & doors, walls, finishing …
harmmonica 5y ago
I’m in the middle of trying to figure this out with a friend by building an off-grid tiny house and this is pretty accurate. With our labor at a nominal rate (30/hr) it’s coming out to about $250 per square foot. We think on the next one we might be able to get down to $200 maybe $175. Interior is not done yet, but exterior is: https://imgur.com/gallery/KbPlbPR https://imgur.com/gallery/KbPlbPR That 250 psf includes everything you need to live from the get go except you have to fill the 50-gallon water tank.
ctdonath 5y ago
I’ve heard an aphorism to wit: length is cheap, corners are expensive.

lovich 5y ago

There’s only going to be two types of customers for that. The Uber rich who can afford spending multiple thousands of dollars in what’s effectively a private hotel room you can install wherever you have land, and the extremely poor who will live in them because it is the maximum they can afford. The negative PR from the latter set of clients can’t possibly be worth how much margin they can get from the former, especially when hotels exist in every city, town, and village. There’s still probably a market for something that size from people who can afford 30k+ to handle the static costs of building a luxury cabin in the country and are still price conscious enough to want to limit how much they spend on building. It’s extremely unlikely that there’s a market for deplorable houses this size that also fits in a middle class budget like 2k would

stickfigure 5y ago
> The Uber rich who can afford spending multiple thousands of dollars in what’s effectively a private hotel room In the vast majority of the US, these are called "cabins" and it is very common for people with very modest means to build them for recreation. Outside of urban areas, you don't have to be rich to own land.

rambambram 5y ago

Don't know why you're down voted. I've looked into my fair share of tiny houses and vanlife builds, and they all have one thing in common: it's either amateuristic (don't get me wrong, I love it, but the quality and looks ain't there), or it's superdeluxe comfy/beautiful and completely forgetting about all the hassle around it. I mean, one needs land and permission to put a 'house' somewhere. There seems nothing in between. So now I'm looking into bicycle caravans. One can just put 'm in the woods, nobody finds out (and if they do, so what), it costs basically nothing, you can fix it yourself, etc. I might post my current bicycle caravan project to HN soon.

Johnythree 5y ago

The problem is your assumption that "it doesn't need to pass any code". It varies with location but in general you first need a Building Permit, then a Certificate of Occupancy" before you can live in it. And of course for either, the dwelling has to meet local codes.

coderintherye 5y ago
Incorrect. This is not an "assumption". Though I'll admit my comment is U.S. specific. Read up on your state and county laws, there are many states and counities in the U.S. where structures <= 120 square feet require no permits, no certificates, no regulation at all. Also no one mentioned living in one.

zie 5y ago

RV's & trailers are right @ 120sq ft usually. Pick 1 from any of the few manufacturers and enjoy life. There is even such a thing as a "destination trailer": https://www.keystonerv.com/rv-type/destination-trailers https://www.keystonerv.com/rv-type/destination-trailers which almost exactly describes what you are looking for. Price: $30->50k brand new. Used models cheaper.

stickfigure 5y ago

Look for wood cabin kits, something like this: https://bzbcabinsandoutdoors.net/log-cabin-kits/escape/ https://bzbcabinsandoutdoors.net/log-cabin-kits/escape/ Not well insulated but cute and cheap and makes a cozy little spot you can escape to. Obviously not for living, but what do you want for 120sqft? Those Bunkies are all well under 120sqft and wouldn't need permits here in Solano county. Actually they could be a bit bigger; I'm looking for literal 12' x 10'.