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> I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political oppo
by TeeMassive 5y ago
> I think HK is a perfect case study of a line of fallacious thinking popular among westerners: the idea that peaceful protesting or rule-abiding political opposition is generally effective.
It's not fallacious. It has worked in the past and continue to work even to this day. Peaceful protests are proven to work more than violence; when they are allowed in the first place. Violet uprisings rarely lead to positive change and mostly end up in either worse conditions or disaster.
Most Western governance are inheritors of violent revolutions of some sort, which people tend to be aware of but take for granted. The US has made it a point to elevate the right to bear arms as a natural right. The UK on the other hand arrest people for tweets. HK never had guns to begin with.
- naniwaduni 5y ago> Peaceful protests are proven to work more than violence; Are they? Remember, a successful violent "protest" is often just retroactively called by a different name, like "revolution" or "coup d'état", it's not as if they're fundamentally different things. How do you compare those to successful peaceful protests?
- ILMostro7 5y agoLol How do you go from a protest to a coup d'état?
- fogihujy 5y agoThere was a revolution or two that started as simple protests...
- TeeMassive 5y agoThere are many fundamental difference between standing armies and/or organized militias and violent mobs in terms of scale, martial effectiveness, negotiations, treaties and post-conflict continuation. Mobs don't win wars, they merely destroy and the rest is left to fate, often with disastrous results(see Libya as an example). Mobs can't sit at the negotiation table Mobs can't agree to treaties and enforce them Mobs can't form proper functioning and recognized government.
- guerrilla 5y ago> Mobs don't win wars, they merely destroy and the rest is left to fate You seriously can't think of any counterexamples to that? Like maybe some French (contemporary and historical), German or Russian counterexamples?
- ceilingcorner 5y agoIn all three of your examples, mobs didn’t win any wars. Organized political factions won wars, which usually came after a period of chaos. People always forget that the Russian Revolution was followed by war between the Whites and the Reds.
- naniwaduni 5y ago"Mobs don't win, organized political factions win" also characterizes the outcomes of peaceable protest, so what's your point?
- ceilingcorner 5y agoI was replying to the parent comment.