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The nice thing about ICE cars is they can get passed down the value chain easily. Middle class family buys a new car, drives it for 5 years or so, trades it in

The nice thing about ICE cars is they can get passed down the value chain easily. Middle class family buys a new car, drives it for 5 years or so, trades it in for a new car, and the used car is sold to a poorer family but pretty much works just as well. Do electrics work the same way? I imagine the battery performs significantly worse after 5 years than when new.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Tesla vehicles have hundreds of thousands of miles on them with reasonable amounts of degradation. https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/ https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-rep... https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/ https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat...
- rasz 5y ago
  and even a minor fender benders result in cars being declared a total loss due to Teslas fantastic repair ecosystem.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Insurers still insure them so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - KirillPanov 5y ago
      At obscene premiums. If your car loan requires collision insurance, the dealer should have to show the monthly insurance premium wherever they show you a monthly payment. But they don't have to, so they don't.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
jwalton 5y ago
Our 2015 Leaf has a “charge indicator” and a “capacity indicator”, each with 12 segments. The “capacity indicator” just dropped one notch to 11, but this hasn’t had a huge impact on range - certainly it still gets us around the city, which is why we bought it. Nissan estimates the batteries will outlive the cars by about 10-12 years: https://insideevs.com/news/351314/nissan-leaf-battery-longevity/ https://insideevs.com/news/351314/nissan-leaf-battery-longev...
- kube-system 5y ago
  > Nissan estimates the batteries will outlive the cars by about 10-12 years I was about to make a joke about Nissan's build quality, but Nissan beat me to it... > The company sees the LEAF's reasonable life at about 10 years. Yikes, the average age of a vehicle on US roads is 12+ years. I know they're in the business of selling new cars, but damn.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Nissan is intentionally building disposable cars for people of lesser means and credit scores.
    - hellbannedguy 5y ago
      I don't know where you got that info. I wouldn't want to be the company out there that doesn't want to have low, and middle income, owners for their electric vechicles. If Volkswagen didn't sell low priced, well engineered vehicles to the 99% of us struggling; we would not know their name today.
      - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
        It's been in their public financial documents for 15yr now. They just wrap it up with softer words like "customers who prioritize value" to not offend white collar sensibilities. They're basically Chrysler of Japan. Nothing wrong with that. Someone's gotta sell those cars.
KirillPanov 5y ago
> Do electrics work the same way? I'm sorry, your vehicle is no longer safe to drive because it is not receiving software updates anymore. Too bad. It makes me really sad that there were basically two true EVs mass-produced for highway-speed use (the Tesla Roadster and the Nissan Leaf) before we permanently and irreversibly transitioned to "smartphone on wheels". I will not be buying any of those.
oatmeal_croc 5y ago
Yes, and battery replacements aren't cheap.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

Tesla vehicles have hundreds of thousands of miles on them with reasonable amounts of degradation. https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/ https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-rep... https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/ https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat...

rasz 5y ago
and even a minor fender benders result in cars being declared a total loss due to Teslas fantastic repair ecosystem.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Insurers still insure them so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - KirillPanov 5y ago
    At obscene premiums. If your car loan requires collision insurance, the dealer should have to show the monthly insurance premium wherever they show you a monthly payment. But they don't have to, so they don't.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

jwalton 5y ago

Our 2015 Leaf has a “charge indicator” and a “capacity indicator”, each with 12 segments. The “capacity indicator” just dropped one notch to 11, but this hasn’t had a huge impact on range - certainly it still gets us around the city, which is why we bought it. Nissan estimates the batteries will outlive the cars by about 10-12 years: https://insideevs.com/news/351314/nissan-leaf-battery-longevity/ https://insideevs.com/news/351314/nissan-leaf-battery-longev...

kube-system 5y ago
> Nissan estimates the batteries will outlive the cars by about 10-12 years I was about to make a joke about Nissan's build quality, but Nissan beat me to it... > The company sees the LEAF's reasonable life at about 10 years. Yikes, the average age of a vehicle on US roads is 12+ years. I know they're in the business of selling new cars, but damn.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Nissan is intentionally building disposable cars for people of lesser means and credit scores.
  - hellbannedguy 5y ago
    I don't know where you got that info. I wouldn't want to be the company out there that doesn't want to have low, and middle income, owners for their electric vechicles. If Volkswagen didn't sell low priced, well engineered vehicles to the 99% of us struggling; we would not know their name today.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      It's been in their public financial documents for 15yr now. They just wrap it up with softer words like "customers who prioritize value" to not offend white collar sensibilities. They're basically Chrysler of Japan. Nothing wrong with that. Someone's gotta sell those cars.

KirillPanov 5y ago

> Do electrics work the same way? I'm sorry, your vehicle is no longer safe to drive because it is not receiving software updates anymore. Too bad. It makes me really sad that there were basically two true EVs mass-produced for highway-speed use (the Tesla Roadster and the Nissan Leaf) before we permanently and irreversibly transitioned to "smartphone on wheels". I will not be buying any of those.

oatmeal_croc 5y ago

Yes, and battery replacements aren't cheap.