4 ms·

interesting, I think I describe my criteria identically to you, but I have different conclusions. The thing aboht markdown and org-mode is that it's fully reada

interesting, I think I describe my criteria identically to you, but I have different conclusions. The thing aboht markdown and org-mode is that it's fully readable without any extra requirements whatsoever, as opposed to e.g. jupyter, word, etc. I've read and edited my own org files in notepad on occasion, which works perfectly well (imagine doing that with a word document!), The same is true for markdown files- to such a degree that it is the standard for readme files, and those are definitely supposed to be readable by anyone. So to me that definitely makes it plain text- all the more as you will be perfectly fine not adhering to any of the rules within an org file, but then suddenly dropping a table with formulas in there and having it work immediately (again, image word here). So I would say it doesn't _need_ tools, but can _benefit_, as opposed to word/etc. You might say these are quantitatively less "plain text" in some way when compared with a literal .txt file, which is fair enough, but I think they're extremely similar when compared to a .docx file.

slightwinder 5y ago
> interesting, I think I describe my criteria identically to you, but I have different conclusions. The thing aboht markdown and org-mode is that it's fully readable without any extra requirements whatsoever, as opposed to e.g. jupyter, word, etc. Well, yes, but no. It's more readable than the json or xml-files used by jupyter or word (which technically are still plain text). But they are less readable then any markup-free plain text. If you use slightly complex markup, like links or tables, they can become quite unreadable too. That's the nature of complexity. Additionally, you still must be aware of the syntax and it's rules, especially when you wanna write it, not just read them. That's why simple markups considered an in-between. The requirements are low, but they still are there. > So I would say it doesn't _need_ tools, but can _benefit_, as opposed to word/etc. True, but what are the benefits of using them without tools? Why not go full freestyle plain text? Use whatever text you want, make syntax up on the spot as you need it. That would be 100% plain text, as there is no cage that limits your expressioness.
- OrderlyTiamat 5y ago
  > That's why simple markups considered an in-between completely agree > Use whatever text you want, make syntax up on the spot as you need it. That would be 100% plain text, as there is no cage that limits your expressioness. However, see my point above: with md (but especially with org) one is completely free to do this!

slightwinder 5y ago

> interesting, I think I describe my criteria identically to you, but I have different conclusions. The thing aboht markdown and org-mode is that it's fully readable without any extra requirements whatsoever, as opposed to e.g. jupyter, word, etc. Well, yes, but no. It's more readable than the json or xml-files used by jupyter or word (which technically are still plain text). But they are less readable then any markup-free plain text. If you use slightly complex markup, like links or tables, they can become quite unreadable too. That's the nature of complexity. Additionally, you still must be aware of the syntax and it's rules, especially when you wanna write it, not just read them. That's why simple markups considered an in-between. The requirements are low, but they still are there. > So I would say it doesn't _need_ tools, but can _benefit_, as opposed to word/etc. True, but what are the benefits of using them without tools? Why not go full freestyle plain text? Use whatever text you want, make syntax up on the spot as you need it. That would be 100% plain text, as there is no cage that limits your expressioness.

OrderlyTiamat 5y ago
> That's why simple markups considered an in-between completely agree > Use whatever text you want, make syntax up on the spot as you need it. That would be 100% plain text, as there is no cage that limits your expressioness. However, see my point above: with md (but especially with org) one is completely free to do this!