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> Given the line you drew was that there must be a fix in 90 days, if the company agrees it is a vulnerability, the logical conclusion is that the companies wou
by staticassertion 5y ago
> Given the line you drew was that there must be a fix in 90 days, if the company agrees it is a vulnerability, the logical conclusion is that the companies would end up claiming "not a vulnerability" when they mean WONTFIX.
OK, but that doesn't apply here, which is why I don't get why you're bringing up general policy issues in this specific instance. Google did acknowledge the vulnerability, as noted in the disclosure notes in the repo.
So like, let me just clearly list out some facts:
* Project 0 feels that 90 days is a good timeline for the vast majority of vulns to be patched (this is consistent with their data, and appears accurate)
* This issue was acknowledged by Google, though perhaps not explicitly as a vulnerability, all that I can see is that they ack'd it with "Good catch" - I take this as an ack of vulnerability
* This issue is now 3x the 90 day window that P0 considers to be sufficient in the vast majority of cases to fix vulnerabilities
I don't see why other information is supposed to be relevant. Yes, vendors in some hypothetical situation may feel the incentive to say "WONTFIX" - that has nothing to do with this scenario and has no bearing on the facts.
> If you think this particular issue should have been fixed within a given timeline, it should be on the merits of the issue itself.
That's not P0s opinion in the vast majority of cases - only in extreme cases, to my knowledge, do they break from their 90 day disclosure policy.
> Not just by following a "everything must be fixed in 90 days" dogma.
Dogma here is quite helpful. I see no reason to break from it in this instance.
> Seems like those would have been far more interesting discussions than a silly game of gotcha.
I'm not saying "gotcha", I'm saying that:
a) 9 months to fix this feels very high, Google should explain why it took so long to restore confidence
b) The fact that they have an internal culture of 90 days being a good time frame for patching purely makes it ironic - it is primarily the fact that I think this should have been patched much more quickly that would bother me as a customer.
> (If you believe there is no such thing as a vulnerability that cannot be fixed, or that's not worth fixing, then I don't know that we'll find common ground.)
Nope, 100% there are vulns that can't be fixed, vulns that aren't worth fixing, etc. But again, Google didn't say this was a "WONTFIX" though, and they did ack that this is a vuln. If it wasn't possible to fix it they could say so, but that isn't what they said at all, they just said they weren't prioritizing it.
If it's the case that this simply isn't patchable, they should say so. If they think this doesn't matter, why not say so? It certainly seems patchable.
- jsnell 5y ago> OK, but that doesn't apply here It's not what happened, but the logical outcome of what you propose. Right now the rules are simple: "disclosure in 90 days, up to you whether to fix it". What you're proposing is that it is no longer up to the company to make that tradeoff. They must always fix it. > That's not P0s opinion in the vast majority of cases - only in extreme cases, to my knowledge, do they break from their 90 day disclosure policy. Again, that is a disclosure timeline. Not a demand for a fix in that timeline. In general it's in the vendors best interest release a fix in that timeline, especially given its immutability. You're trying to convert it to a demand for a fix no matter what. That is not productive. > a) 9 months to fix this feels very high, Google should explain why it took so long to restore confidence So why not argue for that explicitly? It seems like a much stronger approach than the "lol PZ hypocricy" option.
- staticassertion 5y agoYou're trying to talk about consequences of my statement, which I'm trying very hard not to talk about, because I don't care. I'm only talking about this very specific instance. > Again, that is a disclosure timeline. Not a demand for a fix in that timeline. Yes and it is based on the expectation of a fix within that timeline being practical. > You're trying to convert it to a demand for a fix no matter what. That is not productive. No I'm not, you're trying to say that I am, repeatedly, and I keep telling you I don't care about discussing disclosure policy broadly. I'm only talking about this once instance. > It seems like a much stronger approach than the "lol PZ hypocricy" option. Take that up with the person who posted about P0 initially. I'm only saying that it's ironic and that I support the 90 day window as being a very reasonable time to fix things, and that them going 3x over is a bad look.
- joshuamorton 5y agoSure, but how is that hypocritical, which is the question I asked that you initially responded to?
- staticassertion 5y ago