4 ms·

Okay, but nobody is going to become anywhere close to Messi without working hard. That's the point. Do you think someone could become Messi by putting in barely

by swman 5y ago

Okay, but nobody is going to become anywhere close to Messi without working hard. That's the point. Do you think someone could become Messi by putting in barely any practice or effort? You might get into a team, but you won't be a Messi lol. Be honest with yourself. Obviously luck plays a role, but most people (>90% I'll bet) who are successful in the end get there due to hard work. I could sit on my butt and do nothing all day, and suddenly my doge coin are worth a million bucks. I basically don't know anyone IRL who got mega rich off these things. I know a lot more people IRL who are mega rich because they work hard to this day.

luffapi 5y ago
It’s important to recognize physical activity is very different from mental, creative or social activities. If you can convince people of things, you can be wildly successful. They may listen to you because you speak well, they may listen to you because you’re telling them what they want to hear or they may listen to you because you’re rich. None of which require the rigorous practice of a professional athlete. Same goes for creative endeavors. I can be much more creative (and successful) if I’m well rested vs. grinding. Contrary to you, the most successful people I know didn’t work hard at all. They either inherited cash and a network or they invented something that got huge and they sold it.
- thomastjeffery 5y ago
  > the most successful people I know didn’t work hard at all. They either inherited cash... That's not success.
  - luffapi 5y ago
    I think the vast majority of CEOs and VCs come from the upper class. At least 99% of the execs I know did.
kentosi 5y ago
The parent's comment wan't implying that luck was everything, but to point out that luck is also an important factor. > There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort. And luck, Paul. Don't forget luck. Hard work is only sustainable when you occasionally get that carrot at the end of the stick, before moving onto the next bit of hard work.
- TiberiusC 5y ago
  I think luck falls into the natural ability category.
  - j-krieger 5y ago
    I think it falls into a different category. Lucky in this regard is being in the right situations at the right time.
  - pyrale 5y ago
    I would suggest the opposite: natural ability falls in the luck category.
- varispeed 5y ago
  And money If you have money, then even if you do mediocre work (e.g. in music), you can ironically appear as doing great work.
Cederfjard 5y ago
Sure, hard work is often a requisite (unless you luck out in the extreme). But for the most part, it’s not enough, it’s not a guarantee, and it’s not the hardest worker who necessarily becomes the most successful. The point is that you shouldn’t look at the rich and the famous and think ”wow, the reason they’re there and the rest of us aren’t is because they’re so much more virtous and hardworking”. Obviously it’s all a matter of degree, I’m assuming we’re talking really well off here. A lot of people are in the position where hard work is likely to yield moderate success and a decent life at least.
ZephyrBlu 5y ago
Correlation vs causation. Just because they "worked hard to this day", doesn't mean that's what caused them to be mega rich. People just don't like to think that maybe they didn't do anything special to deserve their success.
OpieCunningham 5y ago
Put it this way: if you’re lucky and work hard, you could be like Messi. If you’re very very lucky and don’t work hard, you may still be like Messi. If you’re unlucky and work hard, you won’t ever be like Messi. Just ask Babe Ruth, he didn’t work hard like Messi. He was very very lucky to be born with phenomenal talent. Luck is the critical factor, hard work is secondary, though beneficial in that it decreases (but can never eliminate) the required amount of luck.
asdff 5y ago
Messi was one of those kids like Tiger Woods and Steph Curry who had a dedicated parent coach who got them into the game at an extremely young age, and into the hands of the best trainers they could throughout their childhood. Most kids who are born into that situation end up at the tops of their sports.

by swman 5y ago

luffapi 5y ago

It’s important to recognize physical activity is very different from mental, creative or social activities. If you can convince people of things, you can be wildly successful. They may listen to you because you speak well, they may listen to you because you’re telling them what they want to hear or they may listen to you because you’re rich. None of which require the rigorous practice of a professional athlete. Same goes for creative endeavors. I can be much more creative (and successful) if I’m well rested vs. grinding. Contrary to you, the most successful people I know didn’t work hard at all. They either inherited cash and a network or they invented something that got huge and they sold it.

thomastjeffery 5y ago
> the most successful people I know didn’t work hard at all. They either inherited cash... That's not success.
- luffapi 5y ago
  I think the vast majority of CEOs and VCs come from the upper class. At least 99% of the execs I know did.

kentosi 5y ago

The parent's comment wan't implying that luck was everything, but to point out that luck is also an important factor. > There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort. And luck, Paul. Don't forget luck. Hard work is only sustainable when you occasionally get that carrot at the end of the stick, before moving onto the next bit of hard work.

TiberiusC 5y ago
I think luck falls into the natural ability category.
- j-krieger 5y ago
  I think it falls into a different category. Lucky in this regard is being in the right situations at the right time.
- pyrale 5y ago
  I would suggest the opposite: natural ability falls in the luck category.
varispeed 5y ago
And money If you have money, then even if you do mediocre work (e.g. in music), you can ironically appear as doing great work.

Cederfjard 5y ago

Sure, hard work is often a requisite (unless you luck out in the extreme). But for the most part, it’s not enough, it’s not a guarantee, and it’s not the hardest worker who necessarily becomes the most successful. The point is that you shouldn’t look at the rich and the famous and think ”wow, the reason they’re there and the rest of us aren’t is because they’re so much more virtous and hardworking”. Obviously it’s all a matter of degree, I’m assuming we’re talking really well off here. A lot of people are in the position where hard work is likely to yield moderate success and a decent life at least.

ZephyrBlu 5y ago

Correlation vs causation. Just because they "worked hard to this day", doesn't mean that's what caused them to be mega rich. People just don't like to think that maybe they didn't do anything special to deserve their success.

OpieCunningham 5y ago

Put it this way: if you’re lucky and work hard, you could be like Messi. If you’re very very lucky and don’t work hard, you may still be like Messi. If you’re unlucky and work hard, you won’t ever be like Messi. Just ask Babe Ruth, he didn’t work hard like Messi. He was very very lucky to be born with phenomenal talent. Luck is the critical factor, hard work is secondary, though beneficial in that it decreases (but can never eliminate) the required amount of luck.

asdff 5y ago

Messi was one of those kids like Tiger Woods and Steph Curry who had a dedicated parent coach who got them into the game at an extremely young age, and into the hands of the best trainers they could throughout their childhood. Most kids who are born into that situation end up at the tops of their sports.