4 ms·

This is incredibly misleading. I used to be a close follower of the pharma industry, and you're making it seem like FDA trials happen on molecules and formulat

This is incredibly misleading. I used to be a close follower of the pharma industry, and you're making it seem like FDA trials happen on molecules and formulations somewhat related to the proposed formulation and then are, like, transitively approved on that hand-wavey basis. This is totally wrong. For reasons that should be obvious to any engineer that's worked on any kind of even moderately complex system, the molecule that is tested and trialed is the molecule that goes to production. You don't test "the technology" and then some unrelated other vaccine and then say, there we go, this one's safe. You test the actual formulation that will go to production. This can't have happened for this yet. The trials are still underway. Unknown risk. I dunno if you're misinformed or a troll, but that's dangerous stuff to be putting out there. Vaccines are amazing life-saving tech, and they're safe because of our cultural technologies (FDA trials for e.g.) that make them safe. You can't take all the safety gear out and still get the same safety rating. Doesn't make sense, lol.

munk-a 5y ago
The flu shot that's available each year doesn't undergo long term trials - it actually usually goes through about nine months to a year of trials due to predictions on what the flu outbreak will look like - but even then the substance is a reconfiguration of technology with new details being integrated. In some areas of medicine we can afford to move slowly and we absolutely should - but when it comes to the flu we don't have that luxury.
- jaywalk 5y ago
  And outside of some specific professions, the yearly flu shot is entirely optional. We don't have people running around screaming that you're a murderer or that you should be excluded from society if you choose not to get it. It's a personal medical decision, and that's the end of it.
mrj 5y ago
Even if true, this novel molecule is not floating around in a body for an entire year waiting to have some side effect. They've been shooting it into people for a year and a half now. If there was something to worry about, it would have been seen. But there are many parts of this vaccine that is shared with previous ones and the mechanics have been tested thoroughly. The science is the same. There's just no credible reason for those with normal immune systems to delay. "This can't have happened for this yet. The trials are still underway. Unknown risk." That's just simply untrue. The trials completed. Read the link.
- incrudible 5y ago
  > Even if true, this novel molecule is not floating around in a body for an entire year waiting to have some side effect. They've been shooting it into people for a year and a half now. If there was something to worry about, it would have been seen. There are lots of things we do see and we should worry about. The problem is that we can't tell right away if it's just noise, if it's a potentially rare side-effect. Then you have the problems like Myocarditis, which are clearly caused by the vaccine, which we hand-wave away with speculative "the benefits still outweigh the risk" scenarios: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-24-at-5.09.01-PM.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Scree...
  - mrj 5y ago
    Right, anything not yet discovered is going to be a pretty rare side effect. We're still learning about what covid does to the body, tell me about the side effects of getting sick.
  - baq 5y ago
    > "the benefits still outweigh the risk" this is not handwaving, this is the foundation stone of modern medicine.
    - incrudible 5y ago
      Placebo-controlled studies that verify that the benefits actually outweigh the risk can be counted into those foundations. Speculative scenarios based on predictive factors that you could just fudge until the result looks "right" to you, those are the essentially quackery.
      - baq 5y ago
        no disagreement here, but the same standards should be applied to misinformation from vaccine-skeptical folks. 'we don't know' is an honest answer for both sides.
- 5y ago

munk-a 5y ago

The flu shot that's available each year doesn't undergo long term trials - it actually usually goes through about nine months to a year of trials due to predictions on what the flu outbreak will look like - but even then the substance is a reconfiguration of technology with new details being integrated. In some areas of medicine we can afford to move slowly and we absolutely should - but when it comes to the flu we don't have that luxury.

jaywalk 5y ago
And outside of some specific professions, the yearly flu shot is entirely optional. We don't have people running around screaming that you're a murderer or that you should be excluded from society if you choose not to get it. It's a personal medical decision, and that's the end of it.

mrj 5y ago

Even if true, this novel molecule is not floating around in a body for an entire year waiting to have some side effect. They've been shooting it into people for a year and a half now. If there was something to worry about, it would have been seen. But there are many parts of this vaccine that is shared with previous ones and the mechanics have been tested thoroughly. The science is the same. There's just no credible reason for those with normal immune systems to delay. "This can't have happened for this yet. The trials are still underway. Unknown risk." That's just simply untrue. The trials completed. Read the link.

incrudible 5y ago
> Even if true, this novel molecule is not floating around in a body for an entire year waiting to have some side effect. They've been shooting it into people for a year and a half now. If there was something to worry about, it would have been seen. There are lots of things we do see and we should worry about. The problem is that we can't tell right away if it's just noise, if it's a potentially rare side-effect. Then you have the problems like Myocarditis, which are clearly caused by the vaccine, which we hand-wave away with speculative "the benefits still outweigh the risk" scenarios: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-24-at-5.09.01-PM.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Scree...
- mrj 5y ago
  Right, anything not yet discovered is going to be a pretty rare side effect. We're still learning about what covid does to the body, tell me about the side effects of getting sick.
- baq 5y ago
  > "the benefits still outweigh the risk" this is not handwaving, this is the foundation stone of modern medicine.
  - incrudible 5y ago
    Placebo-controlled studies that verify that the benefits actually outweigh the risk can be counted into those foundations. Speculative scenarios based on predictive factors that you could just fudge until the result looks "right" to you, those are the essentially quackery.
    - baq 5y ago
      no disagreement here, but the same standards should be applied to misinformation from vaccine-skeptical folks. 'we don't know' is an honest answer for both sides.
5y ago