3 ms·

I would caution you to reconsider "given it's safe" as a statement. I think the proper statement might be closer to "the benefits can outweigh the risks, depend

I would caution you to reconsider "given it's safe" as a statement. I think the proper statement might be closer to "the benefits can outweigh the risks, depending on the disease being treated". There are growing bodies of evidence that spike proteins travel throughout your body, don't stay isolated at the injection site, and can cause severe reactions in some people (see incidents of heart inflammation, etc). I was skeptical myself until I got the first shot and am currently on day 5 of chest pain and shortness of breath. I have a family friend (30's, semi-professional athlete) who just had a massive heart attack 5 days after vaccination, with an otherwise healthy cardio system. Lots of anecdata, can't make good policy with it, but we are still flying by the seat of our pants and don't know the overall landscape. For what it's worth I'm optimistic, especially around customized cancer treatments, I am just cautiously pessimistic about the overall safety of causing your body to build a ton of spike proteins and have them float around. In other words, for "minor" illnesses like flu, it might not be a net benefit.

haswell 5y ago
> There are growing bodies of evidence that spike proteins travel throughout your body, don't stay isolated at the injection site, and can cause severe reactions in some people Will you share citation(s) for the evidence you mention? I'm aware of the heart inflammation concerns, but as of yet, I have not seen this described as "the spike protein traveling throughout your body". > In other words, for "minor" illnesses like flu, it might not be a net benefit. The spike proteins exist only to provide immunity to this specific coronavirus. What are you suggesting re: illnesses like flu?
- anonfornoreason 5y ago
  As mentioned previously, we are in the early days of fully understanding the science behind these vaccines. There are many reasonable speculations that the mechanism of the CDC acknowledged cases of myocarditis and pericarditis from both the vaccine and the virus itself, are caused by spike proteins. The only way the vaccine can cause that is if those proteins aren't limited to the injection site. It's actually extraordinarily difficult to find reasonable discussions on this topic, since it seems people want to suppress any conversation that puts a potentially negative light on covid vaccinations, which pushes any reasonable discussion into the cesspool of conspiracy theorist dialogue. Here's a couple links: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.21.423721v1.full https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.21.423721v1.... https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-95587/v1_stamped.pdf https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-95587/v1_stamped.... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8162819/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8162819/ Not hard to search and find reasonable studies in early stages. Once again, I have to give a disclaimer to avoid the brigade: I am optimistic about these vaccines for many things, but I would not be surprised if in 5 years we have a body of knowledge that refutes the "overall really safe" label. Still a super valuable medical tool, I mean no one would take chemo drugs if they didn't have cancer, but people take them because it's overall better than not taking them if you have a treatable version of cancer!
ocdtrekkie 5y ago
For a lot of people, influenza is deadly, and so not at all "minor". Outside of pandemic, we should move slowly and cautiously, but yeah, if we can perfect this out to a better way to fight the flu, that'd save a lot of lives.

haswell 5y ago

> There are growing bodies of evidence that spike proteins travel throughout your body, don't stay isolated at the injection site, and can cause severe reactions in some people Will you share citation(s) for the evidence you mention? I'm aware of the heart inflammation concerns, but as of yet, I have not seen this described as "the spike protein traveling throughout your body". > In other words, for "minor" illnesses like flu, it might not be a net benefit. The spike proteins exist only to provide immunity to this specific coronavirus. What are you suggesting re: illnesses like flu?

anonfornoreason 5y ago
As mentioned previously, we are in the early days of fully understanding the science behind these vaccines. There are many reasonable speculations that the mechanism of the CDC acknowledged cases of myocarditis and pericarditis from both the vaccine and the virus itself, are caused by spike proteins. The only way the vaccine can cause that is if those proteins aren't limited to the injection site. It's actually extraordinarily difficult to find reasonable discussions on this topic, since it seems people want to suppress any conversation that puts a potentially negative light on covid vaccinations, which pushes any reasonable discussion into the cesspool of conspiracy theorist dialogue. Here's a couple links: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.21.423721v1.full https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.21.423721v1.... https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-95587/v1_stamped.pdf https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-95587/v1_stamped.... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8162819/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8162819/ Not hard to search and find reasonable studies in early stages. Once again, I have to give a disclaimer to avoid the brigade: I am optimistic about these vaccines for many things, but I would not be surprised if in 5 years we have a body of knowledge that refutes the "overall really safe" label. Still a super valuable medical tool, I mean no one would take chemo drugs if they didn't have cancer, but people take them because it's overall better than not taking them if you have a treatable version of cancer!

ocdtrekkie 5y ago

For a lot of people, influenza is deadly, and so not at all "minor". Outside of pandemic, we should move slowly and cautiously, but yeah, if we can perfect this out to a better way to fight the flu, that'd save a lot of lives.