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I can relate to the anxiety before something like that which often then disappears when you start. I feel similarly before technical interviews and it’s really

I can relate to the anxiety before something like that which often then disappears when you start. I feel similarly before technical interviews and it’s really unpleasant, the fear holds you back from doing things you’d otherwise want to do. It’s hard to evaluate sometimes or be honest with yourself if you’re making a decision based on what you want or if it’s a rationalization to avoid the fear. I often suspect a lot of the dismissals of technical interviews are more about rationalizing responses to the fear. It makes me wonder though, does he dislike giving talks or is it mostly the anxiety that he dislikes? They’re hard to separate. I can understand giving up on one to avoid the other. I think most people don’t face the anxiety directly, they tend to avoid the task and stay in their comfortable zone - I can definitely understand why. It’s cool he faced it for the amount of time he did.

cmckn 5y ago
I too get really anxious when I have to give a presentation or do an interview. Beta blockers like propranolol have been incredible for these moments. I don’t take them every time, and I luckily don’t face these situations very often. I wouldn’t encourage anyone to dedicate their life to a career that they need medication to survive, doesn’t seem like a good trade off to me. But if you find this to be a real negative thing in your life, you have options besides deep breathing and power poses! Talk to your doctor :)
- fossuser 5y ago
  Interesting about the beta blockers - docs mostly seem pretty clueless about this kind of thing and often suggest benzodiazepines (lorazepam, alprazolam, etc.) or SSRIs - neither of which I really want to take given their negative effects.
  - gwillen 5y ago
    It's a bit weird -- beta blockers are not technically, from a doctor's perspective, anti-anxiety meds. They suppress the _physical_ symptoms of anxiety, such as increased heart rate. For many people, that seems to have a big impact, and even reduce or eliminate the subjective feeling of anxiety too (specifically when used for performance anxiety; I don't know about other cases.) I don't think we really have a good understanding of how all this stuff is connected.
- ketzo 5y ago
  Yeah, seriously. A friend and I in college were talking about how we handle our pre-presentation nerves, and I was suggesting she should try deep breaths, counting to ten, etc.; meanwhile, she would routinely go into full-body fight-or-flight mode, panic attacks, barely able to speak. Yeah... "count to ten" is probably insufficient for that! Her body needed more help managing her chemical response to stress. Same thing for her -- beta blockers (propranolol too, actually) were a complete life change. Just to hit it on the head for anyone reading: everyone has anxiety, it's a normal part of life. If you find yourself physically incapacitated by anxiety on a regular basis, that's not something everyone deals with, and you can absolutely seek the help of a psychologist or psychiatrist!
mathattack 5y ago
This is true of a lot of things. It also appears in athletics. Most competitors get very anxious. (Even Mike Tyson in his prime!) but once you’re in the zone, the anxiety goes away. We are all nervous in job interviews. The best ones flow once they start.
- fossuser 5y ago
  Yeah - I think it's a normal human experience, but there's a spectrum of intensity. It becomes a problem when it starts limiting you from doing what you want to do. Bobby Fischer was also terrified before chess matches, Elon Musk says he's terrified of things failing all the time. I think bravery/courage it's not so much not being afraid, but being afraid and coming up with strategies to push through anyway. For sports two tennis players come to mind too, Naomi Osaka recently but there was another earlier (I think Mardy Fish?). I think different people feel the level of fear at different intensities though - probably a mixture of genetics and parenting. The physical symptoms are the worst part (waking up hyperventilating, etc.)
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    I think people who really experience no nervousness or anxiety before doing something with a risk of failure either don't care at all, or are just bullshitters (in the Harry Frankfurt definition). It's likely that they are somewhere on the sociopathic spectrum.
    - raegis 5y ago
      I understand your feelings, but I disagree. The first time I stood in front of a classroom (~30 years ago) I was visibly shaking from nervousness. Over the years I've learned that everyone is human, makes mistakes, and sometimes their minds just go blank. Nowadays the only time I get anxiety over a presentation is when I'm not prepared. I think of public speaking not so much as a performance, but as an opportunity to share one or two simple ideas with the audience. Some may receive it well, and some not, but that's true with most interactions. Most nice people won't fault you for trying to be helpful. Oh, and by the way, I'm not a sociopath :)

cmckn 5y ago

I too get really anxious when I have to give a presentation or do an interview. Beta blockers like propranolol have been incredible for these moments. I don’t take them every time, and I luckily don’t face these situations very often. I wouldn’t encourage anyone to dedicate their life to a career that they need medication to survive, doesn’t seem like a good trade off to me. But if you find this to be a real negative thing in your life, you have options besides deep breathing and power poses! Talk to your doctor :)

fossuser 5y ago
Interesting about the beta blockers - docs mostly seem pretty clueless about this kind of thing and often suggest benzodiazepines (lorazepam, alprazolam, etc.) or SSRIs - neither of which I really want to take given their negative effects.
- gwillen 5y ago
  It's a bit weird -- beta blockers are not technically, from a doctor's perspective, anti-anxiety meds. They suppress the _physical_ symptoms of anxiety, such as increased heart rate. For many people, that seems to have a big impact, and even reduce or eliminate the subjective feeling of anxiety too (specifically when used for performance anxiety; I don't know about other cases.) I don't think we really have a good understanding of how all this stuff is connected.
ketzo 5y ago
Yeah, seriously. A friend and I in college were talking about how we handle our pre-presentation nerves, and I was suggesting she should try deep breaths, counting to ten, etc.; meanwhile, she would routinely go into full-body fight-or-flight mode, panic attacks, barely able to speak. Yeah... "count to ten" is probably insufficient for that! Her body needed more help managing her chemical response to stress. Same thing for her -- beta blockers (propranolol too, actually) were a complete life change. Just to hit it on the head for anyone reading: everyone has anxiety, it's a normal part of life. If you find yourself physically incapacitated by anxiety on a regular basis, that's not something everyone deals with, and you can absolutely seek the help of a psychologist or psychiatrist!

mathattack 5y ago

This is true of a lot of things. It also appears in athletics. Most competitors get very anxious. (Even Mike Tyson in his prime!) but once you’re in the zone, the anxiety goes away. We are all nervous in job interviews. The best ones flow once they start.

fossuser 5y ago
Yeah - I think it's a normal human experience, but there's a spectrum of intensity. It becomes a problem when it starts limiting you from doing what you want to do. Bobby Fischer was also terrified before chess matches, Elon Musk says he's terrified of things failing all the time. I think bravery/courage it's not so much not being afraid, but being afraid and coming up with strategies to push through anyway. For sports two tennis players come to mind too, Naomi Osaka recently but there was another earlier (I think Mardy Fish?). I think different people feel the level of fear at different intensities though - probably a mixture of genetics and parenting. The physical symptoms are the worst part (waking up hyperventilating, etc.)
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  I think people who really experience no nervousness or anxiety before doing something with a risk of failure either don't care at all, or are just bullshitters (in the Harry Frankfurt definition). It's likely that they are somewhere on the sociopathic spectrum.
  - raegis 5y ago
    I understand your feelings, but I disagree. The first time I stood in front of a classroom (~30 years ago) I was visibly shaking from nervousness. Over the years I've learned that everyone is human, makes mistakes, and sometimes their minds just go blank. Nowadays the only time I get anxiety over a presentation is when I'm not prepared. I think of public speaking not so much as a performance, but as an opportunity to share one or two simple ideas with the audience. Some may receive it well, and some not, but that's true with most interactions. Most nice people won't fault you for trying to be helpful. Oh, and by the way, I'm not a sociopath :)