4 ms·

Meanwhile, in Norway... Norway: The country where no salaries are secret https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40669239 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40669239

by dlsa 5y ago

Meanwhile, in Norway... Norway: The country where no salaries are secret https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40669239 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40669239 Removing anonymity of searching made a significant difference as did letting you know who looked you up. This is a form of social pressure that seems to balance out their need for transparency versus the "peeping tom" aspect of open salary data. There are some less than good social impacts but I'd say on balance the overall result is positive. I actually think any job ad without a salary indication should be seen with suspicion and mistrust. Its basically false or deceptive advertising. Its like going to a shop to buy some fruit but them being sheepish about the price. Negotiations then ensue and you give them an offer and they say "that isn’t realistic". But you easily counter with "well you should have listed the price". The ensuing negotiation includes sich phrases as "you should know the market" and all sorts of "competitive market" slogans. In the end they simply want to clamp the price down and take advantage of ignorance rather than any kind of ethical stance. We tolerate this unethical behavior because "that's how it is".

mywittyname 5y ago
You all don't have an issue with sites reselling the salary data in an anonymized fashion to those "Peeping Tom" types?
- TrackerFF 5y ago
  Yes and no - up until a few years ago, this kind of snooping was anonymous, but that changed, and right now you can see who's been looking/snooping through your profile. Some people figured that they can charged a couple of bucks to do that for you, but I wouldn't say that it is any large or serious business.
axc10 5y ago
The level of population control in some of these smaller European countries like Norway and The Netherlands is insane. They always try to project a progressive and relaxed image, but you better do not try to deviate from the norm. The norm is: Work for a low salary, buy a tiny overpriced house from the ruling classes, eat sandwiches with peanut butter and celebrate Queen's day. Surveillance levels are high but covert, extrajudicial punishment is enshrined in the law.
- boxed 5y ago
  What? Also only Americans eat peanut butter in significant quantity no?
  - jackfoxy 5y ago
    From my experience in Europe decades ago the Dutch eat peanut butter. It's pretty much unknown in the rest of Europe.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - kcartlidge 5y ago
      > It's pretty much unknown in the rest of Europe. Maybe you meant the EU (genuinely, not a dig), in which case you could be right. In Europe however we in the UK have a big fondness for peanut butter too.
CSMastermind 5y ago
I'm certainly not well versed in the literature but I do remember reading a study that showed Norway's open salary data led to people being less happy overall no matter how well compensated they were relative to their peers. Balancing transparency with an individual's right to privacy is a tricky subject.
- ryder9 5y ago
  we'll wait for that citation
- Jenk 5y ago
  Conversely I've read many articles from organisations that have switched to an open book salary policy leading to an increase in employee happiness.
  - endymi0n 5y ago
    From my anecdotal experience and studies, this seems to not be the case: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-downside-of-full-pay-transparency-1502676360 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-downside-of-full-pay-transp... Also, defining the problem by first principles, this effect kind of makes sense. 80% of people think their performance is above average, which collides head-on with reality. Add the effects of Group Bias and you have a recipe for constant infighting, jealousy and misery.
TrackerFF 5y ago
It gives you a rough estimate of income, but should not really be trusted if your goal is to negotiate your salary because you've been checking out your co-workers income. The salary shown in our skattelisten (tax list) is what's called the general income. That is: All taxable income, minus deductions. This means that the income you see in our tax list is going to be lower, than what it is in reality. It could also appear much higher, if you've sold something which counts as taxable income, done consulting/side gigs, etc.
enominezerum 5y ago
Yea, got hit up by a recruiter for a full-time position in the US. I always respond "what is expected salary". I get back "we are a small company and not comfortable discussing that due to our current financial status." I didn't reply back. But, the recruiter told me much more than she think she did with that statement.

by dlsa 5y ago

mywittyname 5y ago

You all don't have an issue with sites reselling the salary data in an anonymized fashion to those "Peeping Tom" types?

TrackerFF 5y ago
Yes and no - up until a few years ago, this kind of snooping was anonymous, but that changed, and right now you can see who's been looking/snooping through your profile. Some people figured that they can charged a couple of bucks to do that for you, but I wouldn't say that it is any large or serious business.

axc10 5y ago

The level of population control in some of these smaller European countries like Norway and The Netherlands is insane. They always try to project a progressive and relaxed image, but you better do not try to deviate from the norm. The norm is: Work for a low salary, buy a tiny overpriced house from the ruling classes, eat sandwiches with peanut butter and celebrate Queen's day. Surveillance levels are high but covert, extrajudicial punishment is enshrined in the law.

boxed 5y ago
What? Also only Americans eat peanut butter in significant quantity no?
- jackfoxy 5y ago
  From my experience in Europe decades ago the Dutch eat peanut butter. It's pretty much unknown in the rest of Europe.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - kcartlidge 5y ago
    > It's pretty much unknown in the rest of Europe. Maybe you meant the EU (genuinely, not a dig), in which case you could be right. In Europe however we in the UK have a big fondness for peanut butter too.

CSMastermind 5y ago

I'm certainly not well versed in the literature but I do remember reading a study that showed Norway's open salary data led to people being less happy overall no matter how well compensated they were relative to their peers. Balancing transparency with an individual's right to privacy is a tricky subject.

ryder9 5y ago
we'll wait for that citation
Jenk 5y ago
Conversely I've read many articles from organisations that have switched to an open book salary policy leading to an increase in employee happiness.
- endymi0n 5y ago
  From my anecdotal experience and studies, this seems to not be the case: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-downside-of-full-pay-transparency-1502676360 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-downside-of-full-pay-transp... Also, defining the problem by first principles, this effect kind of makes sense. 80% of people think their performance is above average, which collides head-on with reality. Add the effects of Group Bias and you have a recipe for constant infighting, jealousy and misery.

TrackerFF 5y ago

It gives you a rough estimate of income, but should not really be trusted if your goal is to negotiate your salary because you've been checking out your co-workers income. The salary shown in our skattelisten (tax list) is what's called the general income. That is: All taxable income, minus deductions. This means that the income you see in our tax list is going to be lower, than what it is in reality. It could also appear much higher, if you've sold something which counts as taxable income, done consulting/side gigs, etc.

enominezerum 5y ago

Yea, got hit up by a recruiter for a full-time position in the US. I always respond "what is expected salary". I get back "we are a small company and not comfortable discussing that due to our current financial status." I didn't reply back. But, the recruiter told me much more than she think she did with that statement.