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The true ah-ha moment comes when you finally realize how much bullshit this is. "Hard work" is the mantra that keeps you a slave. "Success stories" are the tas

The true ah-ha moment comes when you finally realize how much bullshit this is. "Hard work" is the mantra that keeps you a slave. "Success stories" are the tasty carrots that keep you toiling away your best years enriching others in pursuit of the things you're supposed to seek in life: Power, success, status. "Life hacks" are little dopamine hits to keep your eye on the carrot. And the kicker is that those few who actually do attain these things mistakenly attribute it to their own prowess, when it's mostly luck and circumstance with a smattering of ambition and striking deals in the right networks. They then take it upon themselves to perpetuate the system that now feeds them at your expense. So you go on toiling away, pushing that wheel around and around for years as your masters feed you stories of their success and a promise of your own one-day-someday, until eventually you hopefully realize the futility of enriching these parasites, and get off their treadmill. The proletariat are only useful to the rich if they're toiling for them. Edit: In case you're wondering why this tanked to the bottom of the comments despite being at 38 points after 30 minutes, it's because the admins can artificially drop a comment's priority if they don't like it, and prevent further upvotes (downvotes still work though).

eafkuor 5y ago
Yeah this is absolute shit, and it appeals to a very specific kind of "driven" people. Nothing against them but they need to realise that most others just want to enjoy their short time on this planet. I'm happy with my really mellow stable job that leaves me plenty of free time to do the things I actually want. Life is too short.
- giantg2 5y ago
  And then there are many people like me who work a job they hate, still don't get much time to enjoy life, all just to pay the bills. Less time on the planet might actually something many of us look forward to as life is full of pain and misery.
  - warent 5y ago
    I hope this doesn't come across as insensitive but this is something I've never understood. If life feels like this, that seems like an indicator that it's time for some massive change. Usually people give some vague abstract response about why massive change is just unrealistic, indicating some fragile house of cards, while in a simultaneous act of cognitive dissonance dreaming of the day it topples. Perhaps we could: sell everything and move into a van to live on the road; or get a cheap house boat; or declare bankruptcy and move into a Buddhist monastery; quit jobs to transition into a more mindless one that allows more free time; find a nonprofit organization in a different country to throw oneself into; teach English in a foreign country; etc... It's like, when we're brooding so much that we're done with life, it just seems like that's the best time to give life a chance, because at that point there's nothing left to lose.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      I think the biggest thing is that life can suck in any of the alternatives. Human suffering is universal. People are reluctant to switch if there isn't a well defined value proposition. Life is about trade offs, so there isn't a perfect solution. Even living very minimally is expensive due to things we have little to no choice in like taxes, medical stuff, etc. Sure, I could go live in a cabin in the woods. That will mean my wife divorces me, I'd still need a job to pay for taxes and medical bills, I would likely end up incarcerated for not being able to pay child support, and loose the cabin/land anyways.
      - bumby 5y ago
        To drill down on your response here, is it that you’re frustrated by not having those options? I get being frustrated if your dream is to live in a cabin in the woods. But it’s hard to fathom being frustrated if you value the relationship with your wife more than living in said cabin. What are the underlying expectations from your life that you feel shut out from? Based on your earlier post, the only expectation seems to be “not to work in a job I hate” which seems completely attainable.
bumby 5y ago
Curious if you would elaborate on your own personal philosophy that’s an antidote to this? Is it to strive for something other than power or status? To “not work hard”? To focus on endeavors that disproportionately enrich yourself? I do think this type of mindset is perpetuated by those with highly industrious personalities (who would probably ‘work hard’ anyways).
- kstenerud 5y ago
  Ultimately? Focus on: - Relationships: The single biggest deathbed regret is neglecting relationships (either not forming them, or squandering them). - Finding time to live: The second greatest deathbed regret is missing out on life: Travel, arts, discovery, etc. As you get older many parts of this become a LOT harder. - Stress free living: Stress is one of the top causes of a short lifespan.
- 6DM 5y ago
  This was my high school experience, but it was an early lesson I took to heart. I used to work at K-Mart, one day a windy storm blew in. I was really hustling to get all the shopping carts in before they blew around the lot and damaged vehicles. I was still trying to get my other responsibilities done and noticed the patio furniture was starting to blow around too. I mean at this point I'm literally running to get to everything. New guy, chatting up the manager. I can't remember the exact reason, but at some point on the same day the manager got upset that my stuff wasn't done. (my stuff being organizing and fronting shelves) This guy didn't do anything. Like literally just hung out and made the manager laugh. That's when I knew. Hard working people don't get ahead on their hard work alone. Sure, it gets recognized when you've got good leadership in charge. Honestly though, after that experience, I've seen it over and over. Do solid work, know what you're doing and help others around you. Just don't kill yourself trying to impress your boss. The old saying goes, "If you want something done, give it to the busiest person." You're just asking for someone to dump their load on you in some way. If you have the capacity and enjoy your work, get it done. If you don't, and there's no deadlines, why stay late?
fredley 5y ago
The thing he doesn't mention is all the people burned out by 35, with the best years of their life behind them, coping with deep and lasting psychological damage that will affect them for the rest of their lives, and nothing to show for it (except, if you're lucky, a bit more money).
- bbreier 5y ago
  well clearly they just didn't work hard enough!
  - fredley 5y ago
    The fetishisation of work does seem to largely come from people with enough money that they and at least several generations of their progeny will never need to do it.
- dagw 5y ago
  The thing he doesn't mention is all the people burned out by 35 The business model of his company is built on the backs of those people. The more of those people he can attract, the richer he becomes (to a first approximation)
melomal 5y ago
Everyone around me that has wealth built it up from simply talking and connecting with people. Going out for golf and drinks where people tend to let their guard down and just enjoy themselves allows people to build trust. This would, in my opinion, truly define their success as luck. I will outwork them, out hustle them, learn things and do things yet I am a whole Everest beneath them with wealth. But they will strike up a conversation in a hot tub in Mexico and end up partnering up on a major project/deal over mojito's and bubbling water. Whilst I build my landing page stuffed with SEO keywords because I have 'data' to guide me.
- paulpauper 5y ago
  Imagine knowing someone in 2009 who could get you in early on uber or airbnb. or in 2006 get you in on Facebook. you need to know the right people, combined with luck (choosing to invest in uber isntead of quora) and some risk taking.
  - melomal 5y ago
    Exactly, you would be sitting pretty right now. All of my 'successes' (granted they are very small but hey you gotta take some wins from time to time) have come from opportunities which arose from conversation.
paulpauper 5y ago
If hard work were correlated with success, we would probably all know a lot more successful people . Most people who bust their ass have little to nothing to show for it compared to people who are truly successful, like people with tens or hundreds of millions of dollars or critical acclaim. Look how many people aspire to be successful writers, athletes, marathon runners, singers, actors..are those who fail not working as hard?
sergiomattei 5y ago
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
johnwheeler 5y ago
This is bullshit. This is what people who’ve failed tell themselves to rationalize that failure. People who’ve succeeded at achieving ambitious goals are able to look at success from both vantage points: from having yet to succeed and succeeding. You’ll hardly ever, if ever, hear them say it’s solely the consequence of having the right networks and being lucky. Sure some luck is involved, but most of it is attitude, and this is NOT the attitude. I say thank God for people with this faulty perspective. It makes it easier to succeed when the playing field is full of people who’ve told themselves it’s futile to even try.
- greedo 5y ago
  The amount of luck involved in "success" is almost always underestimated. Whether it's being born into a family with money, or having a great teacher who helps you understand Calculus. To avoiding health issues and accidents. To choosing a spouse that doesn't self-destruct. The list is long. Luck is the trump card of life. You can be smart, hardworking, all the business traits that are espoused by "successful" people, and still fail. As Lefty Gomez said "I'd rather be lucky than good." Look at Michael Jordan. He had talent and an incredible work ethic. Yet until the Bulls drafted Scottie Pippen, he didn't have the team required to win a championship. Imagine if the Bulls missed out on drafting Pippen and had drafted Dennis Hopson instead? Would Jordan have still become the GOAT?
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > People who’ve succeeded at achieving ambitious goals are able to look at success from both vantage points: from having yet to succeed and succeeding. You’ll hardly ever, if ever, hear them say it’s solely the consequence of having the right networks and being lucky. Yes, people tend to adopt a personal narrative that maximizes their own moral status, so successful people artificially minimizes the effect of circumstance on average and unsuccessful people artificially minimize the effect of choice. But we don't have to rely on competing personal narratives weighted by who has the resources to reach a larger audience; these are concrete fact questions, and there is plenty of evidence that (1) circumstance beyond personal traits has a very large role, (2) personal traits contribute in ways different than the popular narrative of the successful, and (3) the personal traits that contribute are themselves largely products of (mostly inherited and early childhood) circumstance, not active choice.
nobody0 5y ago
It seems nowadays, or maybe not only in modern age. Being not doing anything is more painful than to be occupied and leaning toward burning out. It kinds of reminds me of a published story on hn [0] > "That is why we like noise and activity so much. That is why imprisonment is such a horrific punishment. That is why the pleasure of being alone is incomprehensible. That is, in fact, the main joy of the condition of kingship, because people are constantly trying to amuse kings and provide them with all sorts of distraction.—The king is surrounded by people whose only thought is to entertain him and prevent him from thinking about himself. King though he may be, he is unhappy if he thinks about it" It seems that being in the passive mode or `flow` is a therapy itself, we can't seems to even stand non-productive ourselves to a certain extent. And modern convenient distractions only steer ourselves down this path even further. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25482927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25482927
naavis 5y ago
I didn’t really interpret the essay that way. I think the essay applies as much to working hard on personal things, like becoming better at playing some instrument or painting better. Both of those take a lot of hard work, but it has nothing to do with ”toiling away your best years enriching others”.
dasudasu 5y ago
This essay is basically yet another pamphlet for puritan work ethics. Funny that it comes at a time where "faith" in hard work as a main determinant of success is at a low point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27514188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27514188
imafish 5y ago
This. So much this.

eafkuor 5y ago

Yeah this is absolute shit, and it appeals to a very specific kind of "driven" people. Nothing against them but they need to realise that most others just want to enjoy their short time on this planet. I'm happy with my really mellow stable job that leaves me plenty of free time to do the things I actually want. Life is too short.

giantg2 5y ago
And then there are many people like me who work a job they hate, still don't get much time to enjoy life, all just to pay the bills. Less time on the planet might actually something many of us look forward to as life is full of pain and misery.
- warent 5y ago
  I hope this doesn't come across as insensitive but this is something I've never understood. If life feels like this, that seems like an indicator that it's time for some massive change. Usually people give some vague abstract response about why massive change is just unrealistic, indicating some fragile house of cards, while in a simultaneous act of cognitive dissonance dreaming of the day it topples. Perhaps we could: sell everything and move into a van to live on the road; or get a cheap house boat; or declare bankruptcy and move into a Buddhist monastery; quit jobs to transition into a more mindless one that allows more free time; find a nonprofit organization in a different country to throw oneself into; teach English in a foreign country; etc... It's like, when we're brooding so much that we're done with life, it just seems like that's the best time to give life a chance, because at that point there's nothing left to lose.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    I think the biggest thing is that life can suck in any of the alternatives. Human suffering is universal. People are reluctant to switch if there isn't a well defined value proposition. Life is about trade offs, so there isn't a perfect solution. Even living very minimally is expensive due to things we have little to no choice in like taxes, medical stuff, etc. Sure, I could go live in a cabin in the woods. That will mean my wife divorces me, I'd still need a job to pay for taxes and medical bills, I would likely end up incarcerated for not being able to pay child support, and loose the cabin/land anyways.
    - bumby 5y ago
      To drill down on your response here, is it that you’re frustrated by not having those options? I get being frustrated if your dream is to live in a cabin in the woods. But it’s hard to fathom being frustrated if you value the relationship with your wife more than living in said cabin. What are the underlying expectations from your life that you feel shut out from? Based on your earlier post, the only expectation seems to be “not to work in a job I hate” which seems completely attainable.

bumby 5y ago

Curious if you would elaborate on your own personal philosophy that’s an antidote to this? Is it to strive for something other than power or status? To “not work hard”? To focus on endeavors that disproportionately enrich yourself? I do think this type of mindset is perpetuated by those with highly industrious personalities (who would probably ‘work hard’ anyways).

kstenerud 5y ago
Ultimately? Focus on: - Relationships: The single biggest deathbed regret is neglecting relationships (either not forming them, or squandering them). - Finding time to live: The second greatest deathbed regret is missing out on life: Travel, arts, discovery, etc. As you get older many parts of this become a LOT harder. - Stress free living: Stress is one of the top causes of a short lifespan.
6DM 5y ago
This was my high school experience, but it was an early lesson I took to heart. I used to work at K-Mart, one day a windy storm blew in. I was really hustling to get all the shopping carts in before they blew around the lot and damaged vehicles. I was still trying to get my other responsibilities done and noticed the patio furniture was starting to blow around too. I mean at this point I'm literally running to get to everything. New guy, chatting up the manager. I can't remember the exact reason, but at some point on the same day the manager got upset that my stuff wasn't done. (my stuff being organizing and fronting shelves) This guy didn't do anything. Like literally just hung out and made the manager laugh. That's when I knew. Hard working people don't get ahead on their hard work alone. Sure, it gets recognized when you've got good leadership in charge. Honestly though, after that experience, I've seen it over and over. Do solid work, know what you're doing and help others around you. Just don't kill yourself trying to impress your boss. The old saying goes, "If you want something done, give it to the busiest person." You're just asking for someone to dump their load on you in some way. If you have the capacity and enjoy your work, get it done. If you don't, and there's no deadlines, why stay late?

fredley 5y ago

The thing he doesn't mention is all the people burned out by 35, with the best years of their life behind them, coping with deep and lasting psychological damage that will affect them for the rest of their lives, and nothing to show for it (except, if you're lucky, a bit more money).

bbreier 5y ago
well clearly they just didn't work hard enough!
- fredley 5y ago
  The fetishisation of work does seem to largely come from people with enough money that they and at least several generations of their progeny will never need to do it.
dagw 5y ago
The thing he doesn't mention is all the people burned out by 35 The business model of his company is built on the backs of those people. The more of those people he can attract, the richer he becomes (to a first approximation)

melomal 5y ago

Everyone around me that has wealth built it up from simply talking and connecting with people. Going out for golf and drinks where people tend to let their guard down and just enjoy themselves allows people to build trust. This would, in my opinion, truly define their success as luck. I will outwork them, out hustle them, learn things and do things yet I am a whole Everest beneath them with wealth. But they will strike up a conversation in a hot tub in Mexico and end up partnering up on a major project/deal over mojito's and bubbling water. Whilst I build my landing page stuffed with SEO keywords because I have 'data' to guide me.

paulpauper 5y ago
Imagine knowing someone in 2009 who could get you in early on uber or airbnb. or in 2006 get you in on Facebook. you need to know the right people, combined with luck (choosing to invest in uber isntead of quora) and some risk taking.
- melomal 5y ago
  Exactly, you would be sitting pretty right now. All of my 'successes' (granted they are very small but hey you gotta take some wins from time to time) have come from opportunities which arose from conversation.

paulpauper 5y ago

If hard work were correlated with success, we would probably all know a lot more successful people . Most people who bust their ass have little to nothing to show for it compared to people who are truly successful, like people with tens or hundreds of millions of dollars or critical acclaim. Look how many people aspire to be successful writers, athletes, marathon runners, singers, actors..are those who fail not working as hard?

sergiomattei 5y ago

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

johnwheeler 5y ago

This is bullshit. This is what people who’ve failed tell themselves to rationalize that failure. People who’ve succeeded at achieving ambitious goals are able to look at success from both vantage points: from having yet to succeed and succeeding. You’ll hardly ever, if ever, hear them say it’s solely the consequence of having the right networks and being lucky. Sure some luck is involved, but most of it is attitude, and this is NOT the attitude. I say thank God for people with this faulty perspective. It makes it easier to succeed when the playing field is full of people who’ve told themselves it’s futile to even try.

greedo 5y ago
The amount of luck involved in "success" is almost always underestimated. Whether it's being born into a family with money, or having a great teacher who helps you understand Calculus. To avoiding health issues and accidents. To choosing a spouse that doesn't self-destruct. The list is long. Luck is the trump card of life. You can be smart, hardworking, all the business traits that are espoused by "successful" people, and still fail. As Lefty Gomez said "I'd rather be lucky than good." Look at Michael Jordan. He had talent and an incredible work ethic. Yet until the Bulls drafted Scottie Pippen, he didn't have the team required to win a championship. Imagine if the Bulls missed out on drafting Pippen and had drafted Dennis Hopson instead? Would Jordan have still become the GOAT?
dragonwriter 5y ago
> People who’ve succeeded at achieving ambitious goals are able to look at success from both vantage points: from having yet to succeed and succeeding. You’ll hardly ever, if ever, hear them say it’s solely the consequence of having the right networks and being lucky. Yes, people tend to adopt a personal narrative that maximizes their own moral status, so successful people artificially minimizes the effect of circumstance on average and unsuccessful people artificially minimize the effect of choice. But we don't have to rely on competing personal narratives weighted by who has the resources to reach a larger audience; these are concrete fact questions, and there is plenty of evidence that (1) circumstance beyond personal traits has a very large role, (2) personal traits contribute in ways different than the popular narrative of the successful, and (3) the personal traits that contribute are themselves largely products of (mostly inherited and early childhood) circumstance, not active choice.

nobody0 5y ago

It seems nowadays, or maybe not only in modern age. Being not doing anything is more painful than to be occupied and leaning toward burning out. It kinds of reminds me of a published story on hn [0] > "That is why we like noise and activity so much. That is why imprisonment is such a horrific punishment. That is why the pleasure of being alone is incomprehensible. That is, in fact, the main joy of the condition of kingship, because people are constantly trying to amuse kings and provide them with all sorts of distraction.—The king is surrounded by people whose only thought is to entertain him and prevent him from thinking about himself. King though he may be, he is unhappy if he thinks about it" It seems that being in the passive mode or `flow` is a therapy itself, we can't seems to even stand non-productive ourselves to a certain extent. And modern convenient distractions only steer ourselves down this path even further. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25482927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25482927

naavis 5y ago

I didn’t really interpret the essay that way. I think the essay applies as much to working hard on personal things, like becoming better at playing some instrument or painting better. Both of those take a lot of hard work, but it has nothing to do with ”toiling away your best years enriching others”.

dasudasu 5y ago

This essay is basically yet another pamphlet for puritan work ethics. Funny that it comes at a time where "faith" in hard work as a main determinant of success is at a low point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27514188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27514188

imafish 5y ago

This. So much this.