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Performance is not a problem for the most developers, as long as the app runs smooth. React gave us not a better programming model, it gave us an other program

by progx 5y ago

Performance is not a problem for the most developers, as long as the app runs smooth. React gave us not a better programming model, it gave us an other programming model. In some cases template based enignes are better than JSX, but that discussion has nothing todo with Svelte or React. React boomed cause at that time everybody has enough of bloated frameworks and with JSX you had a wonderfull thing to tinker code... thats what developers like, tinker all the day complex bloated code. Why made it easy, when you can have it complex? ;-) And it came from well known Facebook, thats it, nothing more. I rememnber the day when everybody was shouting, Redux is the best thing every ;) And now "hooks" Really?

arcturus17 5y ago
> Why made it easy, when you can have it complex? ;-) And it came from well known Facebook, thats it, nothing more. You can keep telling yourself that React only took over because it makes things more complex and it came from Facebook, if that's what makes you happy.
- progx 5y ago
  No you can tinkle complex code, i did not say that anybody does it. It remembers me on WordPress, where many "pro" devs mixed nice complex unreadable code, that is only necessery, because they use WordPress. If they would use something else, they would not have complex code.
mumblemumble 5y ago
> Performance is not a problem for the most developers, as long as the app runs smooth. On their machines. That's often a critical distinction. Developers often get the nicest computers, and they often get to have good, fast Internet connections that are close (in terms of Internet topology) to the server where the site is running. So they can't necessarily perceive the effects of the browser being starved for resources, or jank from the app being chatty over a high latency connection, or resources failing to load due to a spotty connection, or anything like that. What some of these technical decisions add up to is situations like a family member who's using a cheap Chromebook and has flaky Comcast cable internet, bewilderedly asking me why this site they're trying to use keeps showing them a blank page or somesuch. They know that, if the page doesn't load at all, the browser usually gives them a, "We couldn't load that page. Try refreshing," error. What they don't get is that, if it's a React app and some JS resource fails to load, it'll stop the rendering of the site cold, and they'll just see a blank page, or a half-loaded page, or some other confusing state. And I've yet to figure out a way to explain things to them that gets them to see this as, "The Internet is being flaky." They see it as, "Your site is flaky." They're not entirely wrong about that. The people who develop Internet and Web standards have put a lot of time trying to engineer the Web to tend toward failing gracefully. React (and frameworks like it) seems to have, in one stroke, undone all that and instead engineered things to tend toward failing catastrophically. I don't know if you could get a JS-first framework that doesn't behave that way, so maybe it's a necessary evil? But, I get that React solves a real problem that some people have, so it'd sure be nice if it weren't.
- hajile 5y ago
  Most devs using React work in development mode which is several times slower than production. I used to test with a chromebook and production builds were often faster than dev builds on my macbook.

by progx 5y ago

arcturus17 5y ago

> Why made it easy, when you can have it complex? ;-) And it came from well known Facebook, thats it, nothing more. You can keep telling yourself that React only took over because it makes things more complex and it came from Facebook, if that's what makes you happy.

progx 5y ago
No you can tinkle complex code, i did not say that anybody does it. It remembers me on WordPress, where many "pro" devs mixed nice complex unreadable code, that is only necessery, because they use WordPress. If they would use something else, they would not have complex code.

mumblemumble 5y ago

> Performance is not a problem for the most developers, as long as the app runs smooth. On their machines. That's often a critical distinction. Developers often get the nicest computers, and they often get to have good, fast Internet connections that are close (in terms of Internet topology) to the server where the site is running. So they can't necessarily perceive the effects of the browser being starved for resources, or jank from the app being chatty over a high latency connection, or resources failing to load due to a spotty connection, or anything like that. What some of these technical decisions add up to is situations like a family member who's using a cheap Chromebook and has flaky Comcast cable internet, bewilderedly asking me why this site they're trying to use keeps showing them a blank page or somesuch. They know that, if the page doesn't load at all, the browser usually gives them a, "We couldn't load that page. Try refreshing," error. What they don't get is that, if it's a React app and some JS resource fails to load, it'll stop the rendering of the site cold, and they'll just see a blank page, or a half-loaded page, or some other confusing state. And I've yet to figure out a way to explain things to them that gets them to see this as, "The Internet is being flaky." They see it as, "Your site is flaky." They're not entirely wrong about that. The people who develop Internet and Web standards have put a lot of time trying to engineer the Web to tend toward failing gracefully. React (and frameworks like it) seems to have, in one stroke, undone all that and instead engineered things to tend toward failing catastrophically. I don't know if you could get a JS-first framework that doesn't behave that way, so maybe it's a necessary evil? But, I get that React solves a real problem that some people have, so it'd sure be nice if it weren't.

hajile 5y ago
Most devs using React work in development mode which is several times slower than production. I used to test with a chromebook and production builds were often faster than dev builds on my macbook.