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> My suspicion is that people who claim they can visualize images perfectly won't be able to do this Note: I do not "claim" to visualize, I can do it, like man

by the_af 5y ago

> My suspicion is that people who claim they can visualize images perfectly won't be able to do this Note: I do not "claim" to visualize, I can do it, like many others. Remember that aphantasia is the uncommon condition. I cannot see vertical or diagonal words and in fact have trouble focusing on the words. I can see one at a time clearly, but if I focus on the others the rest become blurry. I can see the checkered board though. I suspect this is because your example is too artificial and analytical. My visual mind doesn't work analytically like this. I can see the face of my friends and family with lots of details (I can see them with different hair cuts for example), even hear their voices. I can remember scenes from my last vacation clearly, in full color. But I cannot do a crossword puzzle visually, sorry. I can see equations floating in my mind, but only if I focus on a narrow section; and I obviously cannot do serious math with them.

dorkwood 5y ago
Thank you for your answer. The reason I wanted to give this test is that I think we may be experiencing the same thing, but interpreting what we see differently. I too can recall scenes from my last holiday trip. I can "see" the night time scene at the bar, the placement of me and my friends around the table, the lady in a white shirt delivering our drinks -- but it's not the same as a real photograph. It's a different type of vision altogether. It's possible that there are people who are experiencing the same thing as I am, but are describing what they are seeing as a clear photograph. My argument is that it's not a clear photograph if you can't inspect any details.
- the_af 5y ago
  Oh, agreed. It's not as clear as a photograph and you have to make an effort to "pin down" the image. In fact, I suspect many of my mental images are inaccurate and my brain is making some stuff up. I'm not claiming to have perfect recall, just that I see visual imagery with my mind :)
- the_af 5y ago
  Out of curiosity, can you also not hear "vivid" music in your mind? My friend can't, at best he can "hear" himself mumbling something resembling the original piece. I however can hear passages of music I remember well: the opening from Star Wars, parts of Kind of Blue or songs from Pink Floyd, the intro song of many TV shows, etc. I probably cannot pass a test equivalent to the crossword puzzle either, but I definitely can hear the music and it's not just me mumbling in my head.
  - dorkwood 5y ago
    Interesting question! I can "hear" the Star Wars theme, and the brass and strings or whatever it is that makes that iconic sound, but it's not the same as the real thing. I think the best way to describe it is that the music and images in my head are both experienced with the same level of clarity as my inner-monologue. My inner-monologue doesn't sound like a real voice in the room with me. As in, there's no way to confuse it with real sound. But it has the same tone and feel as my own voice, just as the music in my head has the same tone and feel as the real music. This is where I think the difference in description is happening between myself and others. I've experienced both visual and auditory hallucinations before. These are indistinguishable from real images and sounds. When I picture things, play music, or talk out-loud in my own head, it's not the same as reality. It's a different type of seeing and hearing. Some people seem to imply that their imagination capabilities are on the same level as hallucinations. They say they can picture things with picture-perfect clarity, right there in the same room with them. I even had one artist say he could overlay an image on a piece of paper with his mind and then trace over it. I have another test I'd like to ask these people: is it possible to picture a black square that sits in front of your eyes and obscures your whole vision? If not, why not?
    - the_af 5y ago
      I get what you're saying. This visual imagery as well as the sounds are NOT hallucinations. You cannot mistake them for the real thing. I cannot replace Spotify with my mind (that would be awesome though!) It's just a very vivid and detailed experience, but it absolutely cannot be confused with the real thing like an hallucination can. I can see geometric shapes of all colors but they don't obscure my vision. They "bypass" my vision and go through a different "channel". I cannot confuse myself and suddenly think there's a floating black square in front of me.

by the_af 5y ago

dorkwood 5y ago

Thank you for your answer. The reason I wanted to give this test is that I think we may be experiencing the same thing, but interpreting what we see differently. I too can recall scenes from my last holiday trip. I can "see" the night time scene at the bar, the placement of me and my friends around the table, the lady in a white shirt delivering our drinks -- but it's not the same as a real photograph. It's a different type of vision altogether. It's possible that there are people who are experiencing the same thing as I am, but are describing what they are seeing as a clear photograph. My argument is that it's not a clear photograph if you can't inspect any details.

the_af 5y ago
Oh, agreed. It's not as clear as a photograph and you have to make an effort to "pin down" the image. In fact, I suspect many of my mental images are inaccurate and my brain is making some stuff up. I'm not claiming to have perfect recall, just that I see visual imagery with my mind :)
the_af 5y ago
Out of curiosity, can you also not hear "vivid" music in your mind? My friend can't, at best he can "hear" himself mumbling something resembling the original piece. I however can hear passages of music I remember well: the opening from Star Wars, parts of Kind of Blue or songs from Pink Floyd, the intro song of many TV shows, etc. I probably cannot pass a test equivalent to the crossword puzzle either, but I definitely can hear the music and it's not just me mumbling in my head.
- dorkwood 5y ago
  Interesting question! I can "hear" the Star Wars theme, and the brass and strings or whatever it is that makes that iconic sound, but it's not the same as the real thing. I think the best way to describe it is that the music and images in my head are both experienced with the same level of clarity as my inner-monologue. My inner-monologue doesn't sound like a real voice in the room with me. As in, there's no way to confuse it with real sound. But it has the same tone and feel as my own voice, just as the music in my head has the same tone and feel as the real music. This is where I think the difference in description is happening between myself and others. I've experienced both visual and auditory hallucinations before. These are indistinguishable from real images and sounds. When I picture things, play music, or talk out-loud in my own head, it's not the same as reality. It's a different type of seeing and hearing. Some people seem to imply that their imagination capabilities are on the same level as hallucinations. They say they can picture things with picture-perfect clarity, right there in the same room with them. I even had one artist say he could overlay an image on a piece of paper with his mind and then trace over it. I have another test I'd like to ask these people: is it possible to picture a black square that sits in front of your eyes and obscures your whole vision? If not, why not?
  - the_af 5y ago
    I get what you're saying. This visual imagery as well as the sounds are NOT hallucinations. You cannot mistake them for the real thing. I cannot replace Spotify with my mind (that would be awesome though!) It's just a very vivid and detailed experience, but it absolutely cannot be confused with the real thing like an hallucination can. I can see geometric shapes of all colors but they don't obscure my vision. They "bypass" my vision and go through a different "channel". I cannot confuse myself and suddenly think there's a floating black square in front of me.