9 ms·

Several of the large chains already have pay at table kiosk's I have always wondered why they just do not have order at table as well... I am waiting for the f

by syshum 5y ago

Several of the large chains already have pay at table kiosk's I have always wondered why they just do not have order at table as well... I am waiting for the first restaurant that only has Cooks and Food Runners with no traditional waitstaff... This will likely coincide with the removal of tipping as a custom in the US. We will move to kiosk ordering, press a button to get drink refills, pay at the table, and leave.

rdtwo 5y ago
Tipping isn’t going away, an entire industry of wage suppression and exploitation is based on it
- syshum 5y ago
  Except it is not, but ok. I bet you are one of those people that believe wait staff only make $2/hr right?
  - jbluepolarbear 5y ago
    It’s closer to $3/hr before tips. If they don’t make minimum wage from tips and $3/hr the restaurant must supplement to at least minimum wage. That’s a lot to just make minimum wage.
    - syshum 5y ago
      Well lets do some math. Around here an average meal at a restaurant would be about $14 lunch and $18 dinner per person. So to make the often promoted $15/hr wage, the server would need to clear $96 in tips over the base wage of $3/hr. At an average of 18% tips that would mean the ticket revenue would need to be $534 for the shift. @16 avg per person that is about 4 people per hour, or 1 or 2 tables per hour If the restaurant is that slow, that the server is only serving 1 table per hour, well chances are the server needs to look for another job anyway because that place will not be in business very long. This is also why alot of servers I know prefer the tipped model over a higher base wage, if a strait 15/hr wage was created with no tips, many servers would make LESS money then under the current system Most of the people calling for a $15/hr base wage have a delusional belief they will make $15/hr PLUS tips... that is never going to happen
      - brewdad 5y ago
        > Most of the people calling for a $15/hr base wage have a delusional belief they will make $15/hr PLUS tips... that is never going to happen It almost does in Portland. Starting July 1st, it's $14 plus tips. There is no "tipped employee" minimum wage. It's the same for all. I think it will be $13 per hour in the rest of Oregon outside the metro area but there may be a third level for the most rural counties.
        kbelder 5y ago
        I'm in Oregon and I didn't realize that. Don't mean to be too much of a jerk, but I may adjust my tipping downwards. I typically do closer to 20%.
        padastra 5y ago
        There are many states where minimum wage for workers is above the federal $2.13 (actually, a bit more than half): https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped This whole $2 thing is bullshit that’s carried forward if you’re the average HN reader in a coastal city. My friends who are waiters across a spectrum of restaurants (in a coastal city) probably make $50-60 an hour, and double that at the higher end places, for a job that yes, can be exhausting (but not exceptionally more so than many other low-skill jobs), and requires no specific training or degree.
      - jbluepolarbear 5y ago
        Why not? Because they definitely will and do. I’ve seen wait staff pull nearly $100/hr. Bartenders can make way more than that. It’s all perspectives. Those same people have also had nights where the place needed to be cleaned, or for some reason the restaurant didn’t have customers. At that time the owners will be required to pay them minimum wage.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    Not everywhere but in some places it happens if it’s a slow night and the restaurant does some sort of thing where they average out all the tips over a week/month. A waiter could very well earn 3-4$ per hour if they earned 15 on the weekend. It’s not legal but it happens. Even shadier shit happens where the restaurant makes employees repot tips that didn’t happen to keep above the minimum. Then they have to pay taxes off income not earned. Is it illegal? Yeah but it’s difficult to enforce and the people getting screwed are already very vulnerable (not your hipster big city wait staff)
    - syshum 5y ago
      If we are going to dip into the illegal then what makes you believe a higher min wage would change the equation. The context of this conversation is around restaurants being able to legally pay less because of tipping, however if they willing to violated the laws that we have now, why would they not also violate the min wage laws.
loonster 5y ago
I absolutely stopped going to restaurants that have those table tablets. It's just too distracting.
- syshum 5y ago
  hmm, I prefer them. I never liked handing my card to wait staff where they take off somewhere.. I 100% prefer pay at table, and would 100% prefer order at table as well, less chance they get my order wrong
  - antsar 5y ago
    Those tablets range from "large-screen credit card terminal with order entry" to "brightly flashing ad-infested slot machine exploitation box that might let you order food if you figure out how to close the fucking ads. With a cloud-connected webcam, because why not". Actually, now that I've think of it, I'm not sure I've ever seen the "large-screen credit card terminal with order entry" version in real life.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    So you trust them to cook your food, but you are worried they will take off with your card? Do you live in a first world country or a failed state?
    - kn0where 5y ago
      Some would argue the US is both.
    - syshum 5y ago
      never heard of card skimming have you?
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        Not really in a first world country, no…
bombcar 5y ago
Applebees allows you to order from the kiosk. I bet that after a few times of doing that you could get a situation where the waitress would recognize you and not even stop by until she's bringing your order. I still feel that these products are "sold" to restaurants and aren't actually all they're cracked up to be.
greenshackle2 5y ago
> only has Cooks and Food Runners with no traditional waitstaff They've had this in Japan since before tablets in the form of vending machine restaurants. You order and pay at a vending machine and get a ticket, you sit down and hand in your ticket, and someone brings the food to your table. I haven't been in many years, I guess now they have touch screen kiosks instead of old school vending machines.
- xxpor 5y ago
  I loved those as a tourist that doesn't speak any Japanese. The touch screens would always have an English option.
mcguire 5y ago
Have you been to a buffet?
- syshum 5y ago
  not recently, most of the buffet's around me closed permanently due to covid, while we did allow indoor dinning, their was a ban of self service food. A few converted to carry out only, and have not gone back to buffet style. There are still a few open of course but no where near as many, and the ones that survived seems to be of lesser quality

by syshum 5y ago

rdtwo 5y ago

Tipping isn’t going away, an entire industry of wage suppression and exploitation is based on it

syshum 5y ago
Except it is not, but ok. I bet you are one of those people that believe wait staff only make $2/hr right?
- jbluepolarbear 5y ago
  It’s closer to $3/hr before tips. If they don’t make minimum wage from tips and $3/hr the restaurant must supplement to at least minimum wage. That’s a lot to just make minimum wage.
  - syshum 5y ago
    Well lets do some math. Around here an average meal at a restaurant would be about $14 lunch and $18 dinner per person. So to make the often promoted $15/hr wage, the server would need to clear $96 in tips over the base wage of $3/hr. At an average of 18% tips that would mean the ticket revenue would need to be $534 for the shift. @16 avg per person that is about 4 people per hour, or 1 or 2 tables per hour If the restaurant is that slow, that the server is only serving 1 table per hour, well chances are the server needs to look for another job anyway because that place will not be in business very long. This is also why alot of servers I know prefer the tipped model over a higher base wage, if a strait 15/hr wage was created with no tips, many servers would make LESS money then under the current system Most of the people calling for a $15/hr base wage have a delusional belief they will make $15/hr PLUS tips... that is never going to happen
    - brewdad 5y ago
      > Most of the people calling for a $15/hr base wage have a delusional belief they will make $15/hr PLUS tips... that is never going to happen It almost does in Portland. Starting July 1st, it's $14 plus tips. There is no "tipped employee" minimum wage. It's the same for all. I think it will be $13 per hour in the rest of Oregon outside the metro area but there may be a third level for the most rural counties.
      - kbelder 5y ago
        I'm in Oregon and I didn't realize that. Don't mean to be too much of a jerk, but I may adjust my tipping downwards. I typically do closer to 20%.
        padastra 5y ago
        There are many states where minimum wage for workers is above the federal $2.13 (actually, a bit more than half): https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped This whole $2 thing is bullshit that’s carried forward if you’re the average HN reader in a coastal city. My friends who are waiters across a spectrum of restaurants (in a coastal city) probably make $50-60 an hour, and double that at the higher end places, for a job that yes, can be exhausting (but not exceptionally more so than many other low-skill jobs), and requires no specific training or degree.
    - jbluepolarbear 5y ago
      Why not? Because they definitely will and do. I’ve seen wait staff pull nearly $100/hr. Bartenders can make way more than that. It’s all perspectives. Those same people have also had nights where the place needed to be cleaned, or for some reason the restaurant didn’t have customers. At that time the owners will be required to pay them minimum wage.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  Not everywhere but in some places it happens if it’s a slow night and the restaurant does some sort of thing where they average out all the tips over a week/month. A waiter could very well earn 3-4$ per hour if they earned 15 on the weekend. It’s not legal but it happens. Even shadier shit happens where the restaurant makes employees repot tips that didn’t happen to keep above the minimum. Then they have to pay taxes off income not earned. Is it illegal? Yeah but it’s difficult to enforce and the people getting screwed are already very vulnerable (not your hipster big city wait staff)
  - syshum 5y ago
    If we are going to dip into the illegal then what makes you believe a higher min wage would change the equation. The context of this conversation is around restaurants being able to legally pay less because of tipping, however if they willing to violated the laws that we have now, why would they not also violate the min wage laws.

loonster 5y ago

I absolutely stopped going to restaurants that have those table tablets. It's just too distracting.

syshum 5y ago
hmm, I prefer them. I never liked handing my card to wait staff where they take off somewhere.. I 100% prefer pay at table, and would 100% prefer order at table as well, less chance they get my order wrong
- antsar 5y ago
  Those tablets range from "large-screen credit card terminal with order entry" to "brightly flashing ad-infested slot machine exploitation box that might let you order food if you figure out how to close the fucking ads. With a cloud-connected webcam, because why not". Actually, now that I've think of it, I'm not sure I've ever seen the "large-screen credit card terminal with order entry" version in real life.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  So you trust them to cook your food, but you are worried they will take off with your card? Do you live in a first world country or a failed state?
  - kn0where 5y ago
    Some would argue the US is both.
  - syshum 5y ago
    never heard of card skimming have you?
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      Not really in a first world country, no…

bombcar 5y ago

Applebees allows you to order from the kiosk. I bet that after a few times of doing that you could get a situation where the waitress would recognize you and not even stop by until she's bringing your order. I still feel that these products are "sold" to restaurants and aren't actually all they're cracked up to be.

greenshackle2 5y ago

> only has Cooks and Food Runners with no traditional waitstaff They've had this in Japan since before tablets in the form of vending machine restaurants. You order and pay at a vending machine and get a ticket, you sit down and hand in your ticket, and someone brings the food to your table. I haven't been in many years, I guess now they have touch screen kiosks instead of old school vending machines.

xxpor 5y ago
I loved those as a tourist that doesn't speak any Japanese. The touch screens would always have an English option.

mcguire 5y ago

Have you been to a buffet?

syshum 5y ago
not recently, most of the buffet's around me closed permanently due to covid, while we did allow indoor dinning, their was a ban of self service food. A few converted to carry out only, and have not gone back to buffet style. There are still a few open of course but no where near as many, and the ones that survived seems to be of lesser quality