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> "Parents hit their children because they think doing so will improve their behavior," Gershoff said. That's what parents say. Parents hit their kids because

by a3n 5y ago

> "Parents hit their children because they think doing so will improve their behavior," Gershoff said. That's what parents say. Parents hit their kids because they're angry with no impulse control, or assholes. Doing the same thing to an adult can get you an assault charge, or a punch in the face. I think the punishment for corporal punishment should be jail and corporal punishment.

mc32 5y ago
So Singapore isn’t too bad off? It’s also lack of education. I’ve travelled 3rd world countries and spanking is quite normalized, however, it appears that for parents it’s a normal reaction. So this is a cultural thing and change follows education.
bequanna 5y ago
Maybe you’re talking about something else here, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with small amounts of physical correction. This can be absolutely necessary to change a manic child’s state before they learn emotional or impulse control. Putting out cigarettes on a child or punching them? Yea, that is assault or worse.
coldtea 5y ago
>Doing the same thing to an adult can get you an assault charge, or a punch in the face. Only people in a capacity of authority do the same thing to adults all the time when they're hard to control / reason with: imprison them, beat them and pin them down when they are unruly, restrain them, taze them, some countries have corporal punishment, and several other things besides. What many modern parents did is exchange some slap and/or light hitting (which is not the same as abuse) with an arsenal of psychological manipulation, negotiation tactics, and guilt-inducing talk to get the kids to cooperate. Or, perhaps worse, giving up and letting kids having free-reign and ending up as horrible unsufferable me-me-me adults who think the world is there to serve them.
- anoncake 5y ago
  How many abusers learned from their parents that it's okay to abuse people to you have authority over?
  - coldtea 5y ago
    Some? Kids are also able to learn it by themselves just fine, in a "lord of the flies" like situation.
    - anoncake 5y ago
      We're talking about reality.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > people in a capacity of authority do the same thing to adults And let's look at the correlation: countries focused on rehabilitative justice e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_Norway#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_Norway#Histor... tend to have the lowest recidivism. Meanwhile countries focused on punitive justice (e.g. the US) have high incarceration rates and high recidivism.
  - a3n 5y ago
    In some rural areas the local prison is a major employer. Gotta keep the economy humming. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrial_complex https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrial_co...
  - coldtea 5y ago
    That's true, but not really relevant, as this isn't about punitive prison stay (which makes you a worse criminal and gives you no options), but about a number of lashes or some such form of corporal punishment (which instills some shame in citizens having done some offense, but otherwise lets you go free without prison time). One can e.g. compare Singapore (which does that) vs USA crime rates (the former's being almost non-existant, the latter's being the worst in the developed world), with most other things (like development and infrastructure level, education, per capita income, etc) being very close.
CountDrewku 5y ago
>Doing the same thing to an adult can get you an assault charge, or a punch in the face. Kids aren't adults and they can't reason with logic or words. Therefore, if a child does something like bite, hit etc. (which they do often) an equal response teaches them immediately that committing those acts leads to a negative outcome. Of course, modern mentality is that this is an awful abusive way to treat your child. I disagree, I don't think a spank is akin to full on abuse and there are times when it's appropriate. Additionally, adults that do act the way children do and start violently attacking people often get a quick response either from the individual they were attacking or the cops. Maybe they never learned consequences for their actions when they were young? Have you ever been around a group of young men or boys when someone started something? Typically the quickest way to end it is a swift physical reaction that immediately shows you won't tolerate stuff.
- a3n 5y ago
  > equal response teaches them immediately that committing those acts leads to a negative outcome. I could say just as logically and with the same lack of evidence say that hitting kids to control them teaches them that violence is a good technique to get your way.
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    That doesn't make sense if they're already hitting people to begin with....
aaron-santos 5y ago
> I think the punishment for corporal punishment should be jail and corporal punishment. Would that not entrench and perpetuate the harm that occurs with corporal punishment and in turn replicate the cycle of violence?
atatatat 5y ago
Reading the threads adjacent to your comment shows this isn't the whole story.

by a3n 5y ago

mc32 5y ago

So Singapore isn’t too bad off? It’s also lack of education. I’ve travelled 3rd world countries and spanking is quite normalized, however, it appears that for parents it’s a normal reaction. So this is a cultural thing and change follows education.

bequanna 5y ago

Maybe you’re talking about something else here, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with small amounts of physical correction. This can be absolutely necessary to change a manic child’s state before they learn emotional or impulse control. Putting out cigarettes on a child or punching them? Yea, that is assault or worse.

coldtea 5y ago

>Doing the same thing to an adult can get you an assault charge, or a punch in the face. Only people in a capacity of authority do the same thing to adults all the time when they're hard to control / reason with: imprison them, beat them and pin them down when they are unruly, restrain them, taze them, some countries have corporal punishment, and several other things besides. What many modern parents did is exchange some slap and/or light hitting (which is not the same as abuse) with an arsenal of psychological manipulation, negotiation tactics, and guilt-inducing talk to get the kids to cooperate. Or, perhaps worse, giving up and letting kids having free-reign and ending up as horrible unsufferable me-me-me adults who think the world is there to serve them.

anoncake 5y ago
How many abusers learned from their parents that it's okay to abuse people to you have authority over?
- coldtea 5y ago
  Some? Kids are also able to learn it by themselves just fine, in a "lord of the flies" like situation.
  - anoncake 5y ago
    We're talking about reality.
goodpoint 5y ago
> people in a capacity of authority do the same thing to adults And let's look at the correlation: countries focused on rehabilitative justice e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_Norway#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_Norway#Histor... tend to have the lowest recidivism. Meanwhile countries focused on punitive justice (e.g. the US) have high incarceration rates and high recidivism.
- a3n 5y ago
  In some rural areas the local prison is a major employer. Gotta keep the economy humming. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrial_complex https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrial_co...
- coldtea 5y ago
  That's true, but not really relevant, as this isn't about punitive prison stay (which makes you a worse criminal and gives you no options), but about a number of lashes or some such form of corporal punishment (which instills some shame in citizens having done some offense, but otherwise lets you go free without prison time). One can e.g. compare Singapore (which does that) vs USA crime rates (the former's being almost non-existant, the latter's being the worst in the developed world), with most other things (like development and infrastructure level, education, per capita income, etc) being very close.

CountDrewku 5y ago

>Doing the same thing to an adult can get you an assault charge, or a punch in the face. Kids aren't adults and they can't reason with logic or words. Therefore, if a child does something like bite, hit etc. (which they do often) an equal response teaches them immediately that committing those acts leads to a negative outcome. Of course, modern mentality is that this is an awful abusive way to treat your child. I disagree, I don't think a spank is akin to full on abuse and there are times when it's appropriate. Additionally, adults that do act the way children do and start violently attacking people often get a quick response either from the individual they were attacking or the cops. Maybe they never learned consequences for their actions when they were young? Have you ever been around a group of young men or boys when someone started something? Typically the quickest way to end it is a swift physical reaction that immediately shows you won't tolerate stuff.

a3n 5y ago
> equal response teaches them immediately that committing those acts leads to a negative outcome. I could say just as logically and with the same lack of evidence say that hitting kids to control them teaches them that violence is a good technique to get your way.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  That doesn't make sense if they're already hitting people to begin with....

aaron-santos 5y ago

> I think the punishment for corporal punishment should be jail and corporal punishment. Would that not entrench and perpetuate the harm that occurs with corporal punishment and in turn replicate the cycle of violence?

atatatat 5y ago

Reading the threads adjacent to your comment shows this isn't the whole story.