5 ms·

For personal use and side projects, I always self-host. It's so much cheaper considering the tiny size. I usually start with sqlite instead of the "real" databa

For personal use and side projects, I always self-host. It's so much cheaper considering the tiny size. I usually start with sqlite instead of the "real" database, and in 99% of the cases it stays so. At work, I never self-host. Life is so much easier if blame for whatever unrelated reason can be outsourced to some cloud provider or internal datacenter team. Because if we self host the database, we will be responsible that it is not reachable, even if it's because someone in datacenter changed some seemingly unrelated firewall rule. I want to avoid having to explain anything to our customers. Just "have no idea, datacenter team is working on it. You can ask them?" has done wonders for my mental health and job satisfaction.

brobdingnagians 5y ago
Same for me. If I don't have full control over it, then it is better to be managed and outsource the risk. Junior programmers can't mess with the settings and it tends to just work out of the box for most things. For my own stuff where I have full control over it, I prefer my own setup and actually setting it up the way I like it. If something isn't working then I can change it and fix it since there isn't any red tape. So the full control goes in my favor.
quickthrower2 5y ago
Not to mention backups that just happen and point in time restores (awesome for testing as well as recovery)
gexla 5y ago
If you're self hosting at work, then this is probably your low-hanging fruit for freeing up time by outsourcing that headache. And as you mention, there's risk involved. Why put yourself in a position where people will point fingers at when things go wrong? Why stake the reputation of your product on something which isn't core to the business you're working for? My answer to the original question. One big difference between work and home is that I have more choice on what I can do with my time at home. I can't waste time at work, but I can waste time at home. So, I setup my own personal stuff.
PaulKeeble 5y ago
I definitely have a preference to have my own database for the purpose of development so I can change the structure, data and such as I need. It is kind of a necessity for developing a good suite of functional tests. All too often I have seen companies share a development database and that is a really bad sign for testability and generally stepping on each other. So if that is managed elsewhere but I can do all I need that is fine, if not then I tend to host a database locally for this purpose.
- tut-urut-utut 5y ago
  That's definitely true. For development purpose I also prefer a local database that is only mine, but for production, staging, ... I don't want even to have access. Because in many companies, "you touch it, you own it" rule exists.
mgkimsal 5y ago
> Just "have no idea, datacenter team is working on it. You can ask them?" has done wonders for my mental health and job satisfaction Never seems to have much benefit for me, because I'm typically the one who answers the phone/email/etc, and "the datacenter team" never does. No one is happy with that, and I still get the calls/email/messages, demanding the 'fix' or ETA. I would rather things be more under my control, because I inevitably am still 'blamed' when things go wrong.
- tut-urut-utut 5y ago
  But the thing is in most of the companies you don't have full control over the whole stack. Even if you have "full control" over the database, you don't have control over networking, firewall, OS, "security" patching, VMs, Docker, Kubernetes, Load balancers, vendors managing parts of the infra, internet provider, hosting provider ... Not even datacenter team may have control over all of it, but at least that's their job and their area of expertise. And receiving a call and telling: "here's datacenter emergency phone, please ping them" or forwarding mail to datacenter team with "can you give ETA to the business" is an order of magnitude easier than trying to concentrate and resolve the actual problem while being interrupted every 5 minutes and not having required level of access to actually do it, even if the knowledge exists. Though in most of the companies, business will not call you, but some poor business analyst or project/product manager, which will learn quickly to keep you out of the loop and don't waste anyone's time if you are consistent with answering "have no idea, ask datacenter guys".
  - stronglikedan 5y ago
    > And receiving a call and telling: "here's datacenter emergency phone, please ping them" or forwarding mail to datacenter team with "can you give ETA to the business" is an order of magnitude easier than trying to concentrate and resolve the actual problem while being interrupted every 5 minutes and not having required level of access to actually do it, even if the knowledge exists. You seem to have exceptional customers. Like the parent comment, my customers wouldn't have that. I'm their point of contact, and they want me to do the legwork and provide them with updates. They want to complain to me directly, often citing that they have enough problems with their business to care about problems my business is facing. We'd be out of business if we insisted they talk to our vendors directly. They would straight up laugh in our faces as they fired us, and frankly, I'm with them, since I wouldn't put up with that from our vendors either.
caeril 5y ago
It doesn't work this way. You're also responsible for your poor hiring decisions, including third party providers. There is no absolution in technical decisions, sorry. > "have no idea, datacenter team is working on it. You can ask them?" You can ask them? This response would get you fired from a Level 1 help desk in any competent organization, let alone a position of authority or execution.

brobdingnagians 5y ago

Same for me. If I don't have full control over it, then it is better to be managed and outsource the risk. Junior programmers can't mess with the settings and it tends to just work out of the box for most things. For my own stuff where I have full control over it, I prefer my own setup and actually setting it up the way I like it. If something isn't working then I can change it and fix it since there isn't any red tape. So the full control goes in my favor.

quickthrower2 5y ago

Not to mention backups that just happen and point in time restores (awesome for testing as well as recovery)

gexla 5y ago

If you're self hosting at work, then this is probably your low-hanging fruit for freeing up time by outsourcing that headache. And as you mention, there's risk involved. Why put yourself in a position where people will point fingers at when things go wrong? Why stake the reputation of your product on something which isn't core to the business you're working for? My answer to the original question. One big difference between work and home is that I have more choice on what I can do with my time at home. I can't waste time at work, but I can waste time at home. So, I setup my own personal stuff.

PaulKeeble 5y ago

I definitely have a preference to have my own database for the purpose of development so I can change the structure, data and such as I need. It is kind of a necessity for developing a good suite of functional tests. All too often I have seen companies share a development database and that is a really bad sign for testability and generally stepping on each other. So if that is managed elsewhere but I can do all I need that is fine, if not then I tend to host a database locally for this purpose.

tut-urut-utut 5y ago
That's definitely true. For development purpose I also prefer a local database that is only mine, but for production, staging, ... I don't want even to have access. Because in many companies, "you touch it, you own it" rule exists.

mgkimsal 5y ago

> Just "have no idea, datacenter team is working on it. You can ask them?" has done wonders for my mental health and job satisfaction Never seems to have much benefit for me, because I'm typically the one who answers the phone/email/etc, and "the datacenter team" never does. No one is happy with that, and I still get the calls/email/messages, demanding the 'fix' or ETA. I would rather things be more under my control, because I inevitably am still 'blamed' when things go wrong.

tut-urut-utut 5y ago
But the thing is in most of the companies you don't have full control over the whole stack. Even if you have "full control" over the database, you don't have control over networking, firewall, OS, "security" patching, VMs, Docker, Kubernetes, Load balancers, vendors managing parts of the infra, internet provider, hosting provider ... Not even datacenter team may have control over all of it, but at least that's their job and their area of expertise. And receiving a call and telling: "here's datacenter emergency phone, please ping them" or forwarding mail to datacenter team with "can you give ETA to the business" is an order of magnitude easier than trying to concentrate and resolve the actual problem while being interrupted every 5 minutes and not having required level of access to actually do it, even if the knowledge exists. Though in most of the companies, business will not call you, but some poor business analyst or project/product manager, which will learn quickly to keep you out of the loop and don't waste anyone's time if you are consistent with answering "have no idea, ask datacenter guys".
- stronglikedan 5y ago
  > And receiving a call and telling: "here's datacenter emergency phone, please ping them" or forwarding mail to datacenter team with "can you give ETA to the business" is an order of magnitude easier than trying to concentrate and resolve the actual problem while being interrupted every 5 minutes and not having required level of access to actually do it, even if the knowledge exists. You seem to have exceptional customers. Like the parent comment, my customers wouldn't have that. I'm their point of contact, and they want me to do the legwork and provide them with updates. They want to complain to me directly, often citing that they have enough problems with their business to care about problems my business is facing. We'd be out of business if we insisted they talk to our vendors directly. They would straight up laugh in our faces as they fired us, and frankly, I'm with them, since I wouldn't put up with that from our vendors either.

caeril 5y ago

It doesn't work this way. You're also responsible for your poor hiring decisions, including third party providers. There is no absolution in technical decisions, sorry. > "have no idea, datacenter team is working on it. You can ask them?" You can ask them? This response would get you fired from a Level 1 help desk in any competent organization, let alone a position of authority or execution.