4 ms·

Petrol cars actually work in extreme climates.

by busterarm 5y ago

6f8986c3 5y ago
Petrol cars can be easily fixed in a driveway.
- Causality1 5y ago
  This comment does not deserve downvotes. Tesla is every bit as anti-hobbyist as Apple or John Deere.
  - nickik 5y ago
    Did you know that Tesla is not the only EV company?
    - Causality1 5y ago
      Tesla is 80% of the US BEV market. Which manufacturers make their electric vehicles easy to work on?
      - nickik 5y ago
        No current company makes any of their modern cars deliberately easy to work on. No matter the %, the fact is you can get a car from VW, BMW, Daimler, Hyundai, Nissan and so on.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  Not a modern one. An outdated, inefficient one, sure. But not one that is actually built to be efficient.
  - ppf 5y ago
    The Fiat 500 from 1957 got 43mpg. Imagine what could be done, if car manufacturers were not focussed on the lease market, meeting the newest emissions regulations (more relevant in Europe), and filling cars with electronic toys.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      Renault Twingo III gets 66 mpg, while having much more space and being generally more useful.
      - ppf 5y ago
        Yep, there are modern engines that will do that. I was using the example of an older engine, because they are generally much more fixable (which was OP's original point).
        user-the-name 5y ago
        But my point is, the equivalent today gets a lot better milage, and the reason why has lots to do with why it is not fixable.
        ppf 5y ago
        Yes, modern engines are optimised for fuel and emissions efficiency to within an inch of their lives. This was my entire point - we could move a couple of people in a Fiat 500 and get 43mpg, in 1957. Without the incentives I mentioned in my first post, we could easily make an engine much more efficient than that, and fixable.
        ppf 5y ago
        As you ignored my comment on our other discussion, and continue the conversation here - I also assume you have electric heating and hot water at your house. After all, everyone needs to do everything possible to reduce fossil fuel usage, right?
      - busterarm 5y ago
theshrike79 5y ago
My diesel and petrol cars really didn't like longer -30C weathers. The oil turns into mush and the poor 12V battery can't hold a charge. It was a roll of the dice every morning whether I could go to work each day. With an electric car, I sit in the car, press a button and it works. The cabin is hot within 5-10 minutes. Compared to my diesel, which started blowing hot air to the cabin around the time I was already at the office :D
- busterarm 5y ago
  You had -30C winters and no engine block heater and battery tenders/jump kits? Electric cars only really work at sedan weight/form-factor right now. Most people who need to drive in extreme climates aren't really city drivers and typically need more capable types of vehicles to go with the terrain...if not all out industrial vehicles entirely. Heavy equipment like that isn't even viable with electric vehicles yet.
  - nickik 5y ago
    > Electric cars only really work at sedan weight/form-factor right now. Complete nonsense. SUV/CUV are by far most new models. All major manufactures have pick-up programs for next year. > Most people who need to drive in extreme climates aren't really city drivers and typically need more capable types of vehicles to go with the terrain...if not all out industrial vehicles entirely. They guy who has bought the most Teslas lives on the arctic circles. EV are incredibly popular in Norway and also the other nordic places. EV are very popular in Switzerland where we have high mountains, and go skiing there all the time. Apparently it works for all of those people. But I guess people the state go on 500 mile expeditions to Alaska multiple times a month. > Heavy equipment like that isn't even viable with electric vehicles yet. Seems like your are moving the goal post pretty fast. By far most people that don't live in cities drive normal CUV/sedan/hatchbacks.
    - busterarm 5y ago
      > SUV/CUV are by far most new models. And are not work trucks. They also don't weigh much different from your average luxury 4-door sedan these days. Well-civilized places like you are talking about are not really extreme environments.

Petrol cars actually work in extreme climates.

6f8986c3 5y ago

Petrol cars can be easily fixed in a driveway.

Causality1 5y ago
This comment does not deserve downvotes. Tesla is every bit as anti-hobbyist as Apple or John Deere.
- nickik 5y ago
  Did you know that Tesla is not the only EV company?
  - Causality1 5y ago
    Tesla is 80% of the US BEV market. Which manufacturers make their electric vehicles easy to work on?
    - nickik 5y ago
      No current company makes any of their modern cars deliberately easy to work on. No matter the %, the fact is you can get a car from VW, BMW, Daimler, Hyundai, Nissan and so on.
user-the-name 5y ago
Not a modern one. An outdated, inefficient one, sure. But not one that is actually built to be efficient.
- ppf 5y ago
  The Fiat 500 from 1957 got 43mpg. Imagine what could be done, if car manufacturers were not focussed on the lease market, meeting the newest emissions regulations (more relevant in Europe), and filling cars with electronic toys.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    Renault Twingo III gets 66 mpg, while having much more space and being generally more useful.
    - ppf 5y ago
      Yep, there are modern engines that will do that. I was using the example of an older engine, because they are generally much more fixable (which was OP's original point).
      - user-the-name 5y ago
        But my point is, the equivalent today gets a lot better milage, and the reason why has lots to do with why it is not fixable.
        ppf 5y ago
        Yes, modern engines are optimised for fuel and emissions efficiency to within an inch of their lives. This was my entire point - we could move a couple of people in a Fiat 500 and get 43mpg, in 1957. Without the incentives I mentioned in my first post, we could easily make an engine much more efficient than that, and fixable.
        ppf 5y ago
        As you ignored my comment on our other discussion, and continue the conversation here - I also assume you have electric heating and hot water at your house. After all, everyone needs to do everything possible to reduce fossil fuel usage, right?
    - busterarm 5y ago

theshrike79 5y ago

My diesel and petrol cars really didn't like longer -30C weathers. The oil turns into mush and the poor 12V battery can't hold a charge. It was a roll of the dice every morning whether I could go to work each day. With an electric car, I sit in the car, press a button and it works. The cabin is hot within 5-10 minutes. Compared to my diesel, which started blowing hot air to the cabin around the time I was already at the office :D

busterarm 5y ago
You had -30C winters and no engine block heater and battery tenders/jump kits? Electric cars only really work at sedan weight/form-factor right now. Most people who need to drive in extreme climates aren't really city drivers and typically need more capable types of vehicles to go with the terrain...if not all out industrial vehicles entirely. Heavy equipment like that isn't even viable with electric vehicles yet.
- nickik 5y ago
  > Electric cars only really work at sedan weight/form-factor right now. Complete nonsense. SUV/CUV are by far most new models. All major manufactures have pick-up programs for next year. > Most people who need to drive in extreme climates aren't really city drivers and typically need more capable types of vehicles to go with the terrain...if not all out industrial vehicles entirely. They guy who has bought the most Teslas lives on the arctic circles. EV are incredibly popular in Norway and also the other nordic places. EV are very popular in Switzerland where we have high mountains, and go skiing there all the time. Apparently it works for all of those people. But I guess people the state go on 500 mile expeditions to Alaska multiple times a month. > Heavy equipment like that isn't even viable with electric vehicles yet. Seems like your are moving the goal post pretty fast. By far most people that don't live in cities drive normal CUV/sedan/hatchbacks.
  - busterarm 5y ago
    > SUV/CUV are by far most new models. And are not work trucks. They also don't weigh much different from your average luxury 4-door sedan these days. Well-civilized places like you are talking about are not really extreme environments.