4 ms·

Not to pull the "think of the children" card, but if it were as easy for kids to obtain heroin as it is for them to obtain alcohol...

rantwasp 5y ago
it's not easy for kids to obtain alcohol. Also, if your safety net is that big brother is going to prevent your kid from doing heroin... well... you're gonna have a bad time. Education is key. Having a good and nurturing relationship with your kid is key. Anecdotally: there are places in the world where kids can have alcohol even as young as 10-12. Not legally, but within the family and it's not taboo for a kid to try it out if they're curios. I'm going to let you guess which places have more trouble with alcohol abuse: places where it's treated like any other thing and kids can try it or places where it's illegal to drink it until you're 18 or 21.
- tolbish 5y ago
  Your anecdote demonstrates how easy it is for kids obtain alcohol.
  - rantwasp 5y ago
    was talking us vs other places in the world.
onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
Most people aren't going to stick a needle into their arm to get high unless they've tried many other drugs already. And given alternatives, most people probably wouldn't try it - especially given it's reputation.
- tolbish 5y ago
  Heroin can be smoked, from what I hear.
cloverich 5y ago
Where I grew up (middle class suburb) it _was_ easier to obtain drugs than alcohol. This is not an uncommon experience.
- tolbish 5y ago
  I'm going to go off on a limb and say for at least 90% of kids, it is easier to obtain alcohol than heroin or meth. That is not a very controversial assumption.
  - cloverich 5y ago
    I would bet more would be able to find a drug dealer than you'd think, which is all you need to access any of the drugs you can think of. The more general point is that its not the legality that is stopping most kids from becoming addicted to heroin. The primary thing is that most kids don't want to do heroin. Making it legal (and highly regulated) isn't going to change that. You can't stop something as pervasive as drugs no matter how many people you incarcerate or kill attempting to do so. Prohibition has a real cost and it isn't low, time will tell but I am unsure why the current pohibition and its related drug cartels are viewed any differently than Al Capone and alcohol prohibiation. We can legalize it, tax it, regulate it, and further educate people to make good choices. We can eliminate drug cartels and remove funding from vast criminal networks across the US all in one go. We can train people to be nurses and mental health workers instead of cops and DEA agents. And we can probably _save_ money in the process.
    - tolbish 5y ago
      > You can't stop something as pervasive as drugs no matter how many people you incarcerate or kill attempting to do so. Most countries do just this. Of course some will get through the cracks, but they're aiming to lower the number of users, not hit 0 exactly. Also, you don't have the data to say that making heroin and meth as available as alcohol actually works on a large scale.

rantwasp 5y ago

it's not easy for kids to obtain alcohol. Also, if your safety net is that big brother is going to prevent your kid from doing heroin... well... you're gonna have a bad time. Education is key. Having a good and nurturing relationship with your kid is key. Anecdotally: there are places in the world where kids can have alcohol even as young as 10-12. Not legally, but within the family and it's not taboo for a kid to try it out if they're curios. I'm going to let you guess which places have more trouble with alcohol abuse: places where it's treated like any other thing and kids can try it or places where it's illegal to drink it until you're 18 or 21.

tolbish 5y ago
Your anecdote demonstrates how easy it is for kids obtain alcohol.
- rantwasp 5y ago
  was talking us vs other places in the world.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago

Most people aren't going to stick a needle into their arm to get high unless they've tried many other drugs already. And given alternatives, most people probably wouldn't try it - especially given it's reputation.

tolbish 5y ago
Heroin can be smoked, from what I hear.

cloverich 5y ago

Where I grew up (middle class suburb) it _was_ easier to obtain drugs than alcohol. This is not an uncommon experience.

tolbish 5y ago
I'm going to go off on a limb and say for at least 90% of kids, it is easier to obtain alcohol than heroin or meth. That is not a very controversial assumption.
- cloverich 5y ago
  I would bet more would be able to find a drug dealer than you'd think, which is all you need to access any of the drugs you can think of. The more general point is that its not the legality that is stopping most kids from becoming addicted to heroin. The primary thing is that most kids don't want to do heroin. Making it legal (and highly regulated) isn't going to change that. You can't stop something as pervasive as drugs no matter how many people you incarcerate or kill attempting to do so. Prohibition has a real cost and it isn't low, time will tell but I am unsure why the current pohibition and its related drug cartels are viewed any differently than Al Capone and alcohol prohibiation. We can legalize it, tax it, regulate it, and further educate people to make good choices. We can eliminate drug cartels and remove funding from vast criminal networks across the US all in one go. We can train people to be nurses and mental health workers instead of cops and DEA agents. And we can probably _save_ money in the process.
  - tolbish 5y ago
    > You can't stop something as pervasive as drugs no matter how many people you incarcerate or kill attempting to do so. Most countries do just this. Of course some will get through the cracks, but they're aiming to lower the number of users, not hit 0 exactly. Also, you don't have the data to say that making heroin and meth as available as alcohol actually works on a large scale.