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I gotta say, I disagree with this piece. I, for one, love QR code menus. I can pinch zoom rather than squint at a menu with small/unreadable fonts in dim lighti

I gotta say, I disagree with this piece. I, for one, love QR code menus. I can pinch zoom rather than squint at a menu with small/unreadable fonts in dim lighting. I don't need to badger the already exhausted wait staff on a busy night when they forget to drop us a menu or two. When orders are taken online, rather than awkwardly force a friend to not go to the bathroom (or take their kid to the bathroom) until a server can take their order, they can just order and then go. I do think restaurants should handle payment themselves and have the option for paper menus or menus posted on a wall if needed, but otherwise I'm a fan.

vxNsr 5y ago
You’ve built a beautiful straw man that I’ve never seen in real life, rarely if ever have I encountered a menu with tiny font that is unreadable, I’ve never been to place that seated me and didn’t bring the menus at the same time. I’ve not experienced the bathroom thing either even in large parties, but it doesn’t sound awkward… if someone says they have to go to the bathroom they go, just tell the waiter this person will order a little later… or they call tell you what they want if they already know.
- wlesieutre 5y ago
  Just because you have good eyesight doesn’t mean everyone else does
  - nsxwolf 5y ago
    If you have something that can read a QR code you also have something that can magnify text.
    - Talanes 5y ago
      I dated a girl with poor eyesight, and absent a digital version her method was the phone flashlight and holding the menu very close to her face. So the physical version was workable, but a pinch to zoom is still more dignified.
      - wlesieutre 5y ago
        Yes, that or taking photos of each page and then browsing them on the phone. Either way it's worse than a good phone menu. Personally I'd rather have a paper menu, but digital ones can definitely be more accessible for low vision. I say can because half of the digital ones are godawful UX disasters.
        nsxwolf 5y ago
        Oh certainly. Put the QR code on the paper menu.
        wlesieutre 5y ago
        Sure, and go back to having to reprint all the menus every time you want to change something or update prices, needing extras for when menus get destroyed, paying people to wipe menus down if you have them laminated, etc. As much as I prefer paper menus, I don't think the restaurants that have switched are going to go back to it. Would have better luck pressuring them to have less shit electronic menus.
        Talanes 5y ago
        Paper menus on request seems like the obvious middle ground. Not defaulting to putting menus out reduces the scale of all those problems, while also not alienating customers who for whatever reason don't want to or cannot use the digital menu.
        wlesieutre 5y ago
        Definitely agreed. I still know a couple of people who don't have smartphones, and even with smartphones you might have a dead battery, a low battery that they don't want to waste on a menu, a busted camera, or for whatever other reason be better off with a piece of paper. Keeping a few real menus handy would be the best way to handle it.
      - deleted 5y ago
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    Firstly, amoung my friends I have the worst eyesight, it’s not legally blind thank god, but genetically I got pretty unlucky, my dad is legally blind and my mom’s eyesight is only slightly better than mine. But guess what, someone 400 years ago invented a great device that helps alleviate 80% of the issues that come with poor eyesight and it’s great. Anyone with poor vision can wear glasses, specifically reading glasses can be had for about $5 from any drug store (in the US). Ruining the experience of restaurants to only slightly convenience a minuscule demographic (those who have poor eyesight but for some reason refuse to acknowledge it and acquire corrective lenses) is idiotic. Bec even then, as the author pointed out you’re excluding another demographic.
    - karmelapple 5y ago
      Offering both options has no significant downside, and improves accessibility of your restaurant. I don’t think most restaurants have a Braille version of their menu, but having a digital version with VoiceOver-like functionality gets you something similar.
- kalleboo 5y ago
  Why do you assume he's built a straw man and not just had a different experience from you? Service levels vary across the planet. I used to live in Europe and restaurant service was always dreadfully slow, it could take ages to get the menu and order and pay, having a digital system in many of those restaurants would be fantastic
  - squiggleblaz 5y ago
    This isn't necessarily the case. If restaurant service in a region is slow as a rule, it's probably a matter of different priorities. There may well be less pressure for such a system to speed up the process of ordering, because a more relaxed system is seen as a good thing, and the system that gets implemented in practice might be worse (e.g. perhaps the staff don't like/trust the online order system and they will not even check it, or when they do check it they still confirm with you). It is almost certainly better to address the actual problem (in this case: a disagreement about priorities and service speed) than to implement a technical measure that one party thinks will fix a problem that the other party considers a feature. By failing to actually address the problem, it could cause some people to feel threatened and result in other problems.
dheera 5y ago
Ugh. Why can't we have both? First of all it takes a shitton of steps to scan a QR code if you don't have WeChat. On a default Android device you have to click 7 or 8 times to get into the QR scanner thingy inside Google Lens. I carry a 2nd phone with WeChat and I can scan things in 0 seconds flat, but most people don't have it around here in the US. And then many restaurants' QR menus just redirect you to their website with a terrible experience, and sometimes no pictures. And then it's annoying as hell to try to read a phone screen in daylight outdoors. If you can print a QR menu just print the damn menu also. Put the QR code on the menu cover for people who really want that. These days I often just ask wait staff what they have because I don't want to look at my phone.
- snovv_crash 5y ago
  Normal camera app scans QR codes...
  - dheera 5y ago
    I have to swipe to the rightmost tab in normal camera app and then hit Google Lens and then hover over it while trying to top the tiny tooltip that pops up with my huge finger. Horrible experience. It should just open the web page with zero taps if I point at a QR code in ANY camera mode, even portrait or panorama or movie or whatever the last mode I was on. I shouldn't have to tell it "I'm going to scan a QR code", it should always be looking for one, because it's computationally very, very cheap.
    - NamTaf 5y ago
      On the iPhone, you literally just open the camera app, point it at the QR code, and a drop-down notification will prompt opening it in the browser. Thus, it is absolutely looking for one always as you describe.
      - meheleventyone 5y ago
        Same on my OG Pixel.
wisty 5y ago
I am sure there are plenty of web-based alternative UI disasters to replace menus with fonts that are too small to read properly.
monkeynotes 5y ago
Wait, restaurants are making you order from an app too?? So now you don't really need your 'exhausted wait staff' so much. Hire less wait staff as a portion are now are underutilized. Now some wait staff have no jobs, and the remainder work the same exhausting shifts. The reason these wait staff get tips is because they work so hard, with less service comes less tips. Now you have a whole industry of overworked AND underpaid staff. Any efficiencies you are seeing will be refactored and stretched out as any business cannot afford to carry fat if they want maximum profit and competitive edge (price). This whole inconvenience of a friend going to the bathroom is an incredibly weak argument for foregoing the tradition and ceremony of interacting with a person who will provide you with a meal. If you want to live in a McWorld where every step of your dining experience is as sterile, efficient, and touch free as possible then I am sad for you. That's not what a meal with friends and family means to me, it's not just about eating for sustenance. Why do you draw the line at taking payment?
- astura 5y ago
  >The reason these wait staff get tips is because they work so hard The reason they get tips is because they are waitstaff, it has zero to do with how hard they work, it's simply custom to tip waitstaff, even lazy waitstaff. Most employees work just as hard without getting tips (like the people who are actually cooking the food).
  - monkeynotes 5y ago
    Maybe for you, I tip extra for working hard to keep my meal hot on delivery, water topped up, checking in at appropriate times. I honestly don't understand how you can say tips are not proportional to level of service and how level of service is entirely detached from working hard. > Most people work just as hard without getting tips (like the people who are actually cooking thr food) Most people get paid a real wage which isn't backfilled with charity from their customers. At many good restaurants tips are distributed to the kitchen staff too. Obviously I have no control over that, and the world isn't fair either. None of this changes my argument.
    - 5y ago
tootie 5y ago
Also, you can do a text search.

vxNsr 5y ago

You’ve built a beautiful straw man that I’ve never seen in real life, rarely if ever have I encountered a menu with tiny font that is unreadable, I’ve never been to place that seated me and didn’t bring the menus at the same time. I’ve not experienced the bathroom thing either even in large parties, but it doesn’t sound awkward… if someone says they have to go to the bathroom they go, just tell the waiter this person will order a little later… or they call tell you what they want if they already know.

wlesieutre 5y ago
Just because you have good eyesight doesn’t mean everyone else does
- nsxwolf 5y ago
  If you have something that can read a QR code you also have something that can magnify text.
  - Talanes 5y ago
    I dated a girl with poor eyesight, and absent a digital version her method was the phone flashlight and holding the menu very close to her face. So the physical version was workable, but a pinch to zoom is still more dignified.
    - wlesieutre 5y ago
      Yes, that or taking photos of each page and then browsing them on the phone. Either way it's worse than a good phone menu. Personally I'd rather have a paper menu, but digital ones can definitely be more accessible for low vision. I say can because half of the digital ones are godawful UX disasters.
      - nsxwolf 5y ago
        Oh certainly. Put the QR code on the paper menu.
        wlesieutre 5y ago
        Sure, and go back to having to reprint all the menus every time you want to change something or update prices, needing extras for when menus get destroyed, paying people to wipe menus down if you have them laminated, etc. As much as I prefer paper menus, I don't think the restaurants that have switched are going to go back to it. Would have better luck pressuring them to have less shit electronic menus.
        Talanes 5y ago
        Paper menus on request seems like the obvious middle ground. Not defaulting to putting menus out reduces the scale of all those problems, while also not alienating customers who for whatever reason don't want to or cannot use the digital menu.
        wlesieutre 5y ago
        Definitely agreed. I still know a couple of people who don't have smartphones, and even with smartphones you might have a dead battery, a low battery that they don't want to waste on a menu, a busted camera, or for whatever other reason be better off with a piece of paper. Keeping a few real menus handy would be the best way to handle it.
    - deleted 5y ago
- vxNsr 5y ago
  Firstly, amoung my friends I have the worst eyesight, it’s not legally blind thank god, but genetically I got pretty unlucky, my dad is legally blind and my mom’s eyesight is only slightly better than mine. But guess what, someone 400 years ago invented a great device that helps alleviate 80% of the issues that come with poor eyesight and it’s great. Anyone with poor vision can wear glasses, specifically reading glasses can be had for about $5 from any drug store (in the US). Ruining the experience of restaurants to only slightly convenience a minuscule demographic (those who have poor eyesight but for some reason refuse to acknowledge it and acquire corrective lenses) is idiotic. Bec even then, as the author pointed out you’re excluding another demographic.
  - karmelapple 5y ago
    Offering both options has no significant downside, and improves accessibility of your restaurant. I don’t think most restaurants have a Braille version of their menu, but having a digital version with VoiceOver-like functionality gets you something similar.
kalleboo 5y ago
Why do you assume he's built a straw man and not just had a different experience from you? Service levels vary across the planet. I used to live in Europe and restaurant service was always dreadfully slow, it could take ages to get the menu and order and pay, having a digital system in many of those restaurants would be fantastic
- squiggleblaz 5y ago
  This isn't necessarily the case. If restaurant service in a region is slow as a rule, it's probably a matter of different priorities. There may well be less pressure for such a system to speed up the process of ordering, because a more relaxed system is seen as a good thing, and the system that gets implemented in practice might be worse (e.g. perhaps the staff don't like/trust the online order system and they will not even check it, or when they do check it they still confirm with you). It is almost certainly better to address the actual problem (in this case: a disagreement about priorities and service speed) than to implement a technical measure that one party thinks will fix a problem that the other party considers a feature. By failing to actually address the problem, it could cause some people to feel threatened and result in other problems.

dheera 5y ago

Ugh. Why can't we have both? First of all it takes a shitton of steps to scan a QR code if you don't have WeChat. On a default Android device you have to click 7 or 8 times to get into the QR scanner thingy inside Google Lens. I carry a 2nd phone with WeChat and I can scan things in 0 seconds flat, but most people don't have it around here in the US. And then many restaurants' QR menus just redirect you to their website with a terrible experience, and sometimes no pictures. And then it's annoying as hell to try to read a phone screen in daylight outdoors. If you can print a QR menu just print the damn menu also. Put the QR code on the menu cover for people who really want that. These days I often just ask wait staff what they have because I don't want to look at my phone.

snovv_crash 5y ago
Normal camera app scans QR codes...
- dheera 5y ago
  I have to swipe to the rightmost tab in normal camera app and then hit Google Lens and then hover over it while trying to top the tiny tooltip that pops up with my huge finger. Horrible experience. It should just open the web page with zero taps if I point at a QR code in ANY camera mode, even portrait or panorama or movie or whatever the last mode I was on. I shouldn't have to tell it "I'm going to scan a QR code", it should always be looking for one, because it's computationally very, very cheap.
  - NamTaf 5y ago
    On the iPhone, you literally just open the camera app, point it at the QR code, and a drop-down notification will prompt opening it in the browser. Thus, it is absolutely looking for one always as you describe.
    - meheleventyone 5y ago
      Same on my OG Pixel.

wisty 5y ago

I am sure there are plenty of web-based alternative UI disasters to replace menus with fonts that are too small to read properly.

monkeynotes 5y ago

Wait, restaurants are making you order from an app too?? So now you don't really need your 'exhausted wait staff' so much. Hire less wait staff as a portion are now are underutilized. Now some wait staff have no jobs, and the remainder work the same exhausting shifts. The reason these wait staff get tips is because they work so hard, with less service comes less tips. Now you have a whole industry of overworked AND underpaid staff. Any efficiencies you are seeing will be refactored and stretched out as any business cannot afford to carry fat if they want maximum profit and competitive edge (price). This whole inconvenience of a friend going to the bathroom is an incredibly weak argument for foregoing the tradition and ceremony of interacting with a person who will provide you with a meal. If you want to live in a McWorld where every step of your dining experience is as sterile, efficient, and touch free as possible then I am sad for you. That's not what a meal with friends and family means to me, it's not just about eating for sustenance. Why do you draw the line at taking payment?

astura 5y ago
>The reason these wait staff get tips is because they work so hard The reason they get tips is because they are waitstaff, it has zero to do with how hard they work, it's simply custom to tip waitstaff, even lazy waitstaff. Most employees work just as hard without getting tips (like the people who are actually cooking the food).
- monkeynotes 5y ago
  Maybe for you, I tip extra for working hard to keep my meal hot on delivery, water topped up, checking in at appropriate times. I honestly don't understand how you can say tips are not proportional to level of service and how level of service is entirely detached from working hard. > Most people work just as hard without getting tips (like the people who are actually cooking thr food) Most people get paid a real wage which isn't backfilled with charity from their customers. At many good restaurants tips are distributed to the kitchen staff too. Obviously I have no control over that, and the world isn't fair either. None of this changes my argument.
  - 5y ago

tootie 5y ago

Also, you can do a text search.