3 ms·

Adults should be allowed to have any mind state they want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. If someone wants to have fun skydiving and risk crashing the

Adults should be allowed to have any mind state they want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. If someone wants to have fun skydiving and risk crashing their head in to the ground, let them. It's their choice. If overindulging in whatever activity interferes with a person's life, that should be a medical issue not a criminal one. The War on Drugs is an abject failure and hurts much more than it helps. People are going to be doing these drugs anyway, only with the War on Drugs they're going to be doing so in much more damaging ways (from playing Russian Roulette with mystery drugs, and from the harm that arrests by police, imprisonment, and destruction of families and these people's futures cause).

rantwasp 5y ago
totally agree. also here's the thing: the war on drugs was never about drugs. It was about controlling the masses and about marginalizing certain categories of people. Rich white people could and can do ANY drug they want with virtually no consequence. Let that sink in for a second. If you want to be really outraged look at how crack and cocaine are treated as far as law goes and as far as punishment goes. https://drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/cocaine/difference-crack https://drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/cocaine/difference-crack > Despite the fact that the chemical structure of powder cocaine and crack cocaine is nearly identical, the punishment for crack possession or sales is far greater than that of cocaine. Until 2010, this sentencing disparity was 100 to 1, which means that while just 5 grams of crack would carry a 5-year mandatory minimum, it would take 500 grams of cocaine to trigger the same 5-year sentence. While the law was changed in 2010, there continues to be a disparity of 18 to 1. This sentencing disparity has had a disproportionate impact on poor people and people of color. Statistics show that Black people are more likely to be convicted of crack cocaine offenses (even though the majority of crack cocaine users are white) and white people are more likely to be convicted of powder cocaine offenses. This means that Black people continue to receive far harsher drug sentences than white people even though powder and crack cocaine are nearly identical substances.
- unishark 5y ago
  Crack and cocaine were treated differently by the laws because their social effects were seen as different. Crack was seen as destroying inner cities in the 80s and those disproportionate punishments were directed at the dealers in an attempt to protect those communities. The black caucus in congress pushed for those laws.
  - rantwasp 5y ago
    yeah. the black caucus. are you for real?
    - unishark 5y ago
      Speaking of reality, it's usually more complicated and nuanced than simple narratives about good versus evil. Here's an interesting profile from the 80s of Charles Rangel, when he was chair of the house narcotics committee and perhaps the strongest proponent of tough sentencing in congress. https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=3NQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA128&redir_esc=y&hl=uk#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=3NQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA128&r...
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
> Adults should be allowed to have any mind state they want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. You cannot know in advance what mental state a given drug will put a specific adult in (in general, at least), and thus you cannot predict whether there will be harm to others or not. This is not an argument for prohibition; it is an argument against a "legalize all drugs" position.
- rantwasp 5y ago
  you can. it's called research. it can be done (if it hasn't already been done) on virtually any drug. education + choice are key when it comes to deciding if you want to try drug X. this should be a personal choice not something big brother decides.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    You think you can predict someone's response to major hallucinogens? Even with cannabis, among my friends and family who use it, there's a wide variation in response, particularly in levels of reported paranoia. Research will clarify the statistical level, but isn't necessarily of much help with predicting individual results.
    - pmoriarty 5y ago
      Psychedelics ("hallucinogens" is a pejorative, inaccurate, and outdated term) are some of the most unpredictable of drugs, but there's been a lot of research that has shown the chances of a constructive experience can be maximized with the right dose, set and setting, especially if trained support and integration is available. Many of the people who suffer from paranoia and other adverse effects from psychedelics probably take them in the wrong setting, with the wrong setting, and in too high a dose for their experience level.. and often unsupervised too. Education will help here, but ultimately less than ideal use can't be completely eliminated as some people won't care, won't listen, won't believe, etc... But even that kind of use will be way, way, way safer if the substances they take are legal, since they can at least be certain they'll be taking what they thought they bought and they can be sure of the substance's purity and dosage. On the black market it's all a crapshoot, and lots of people have died that way (even if they don't get shot by a cop in a raid or get murdered in jail if they get arrested and imprisoned).
notsureaboutpg 5y ago
>Adults should be allowed to have any mind state they want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. I mean, exactly the issue here is that if you allow all adults to take as much meth as they want, they will start hurting someone else indirectly.

rantwasp 5y ago

totally agree. also here's the thing: the war on drugs was never about drugs. It was about controlling the masses and about marginalizing certain categories of people. Rich white people could and can do ANY drug they want with virtually no consequence. Let that sink in for a second. If you want to be really outraged look at how crack and cocaine are treated as far as law goes and as far as punishment goes. https://drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/cocaine/difference-crack https://drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/cocaine/difference-crack > Despite the fact that the chemical structure of powder cocaine and crack cocaine is nearly identical, the punishment for crack possession or sales is far greater than that of cocaine. Until 2010, this sentencing disparity was 100 to 1, which means that while just 5 grams of crack would carry a 5-year mandatory minimum, it would take 500 grams of cocaine to trigger the same 5-year sentence. While the law was changed in 2010, there continues to be a disparity of 18 to 1. This sentencing disparity has had a disproportionate impact on poor people and people of color. Statistics show that Black people are more likely to be convicted of crack cocaine offenses (even though the majority of crack cocaine users are white) and white people are more likely to be convicted of powder cocaine offenses. This means that Black people continue to receive far harsher drug sentences than white people even though powder and crack cocaine are nearly identical substances.

unishark 5y ago
Crack and cocaine were treated differently by the laws because their social effects were seen as different. Crack was seen as destroying inner cities in the 80s and those disproportionate punishments were directed at the dealers in an attempt to protect those communities. The black caucus in congress pushed for those laws.
- rantwasp 5y ago
  yeah. the black caucus. are you for real?
  - unishark 5y ago
    Speaking of reality, it's usually more complicated and nuanced than simple narratives about good versus evil. Here's an interesting profile from the 80s of Charles Rangel, when he was chair of the house narcotics committee and perhaps the strongest proponent of tough sentencing in congress. https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=3NQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA128&redir_esc=y&hl=uk#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=3NQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA128&r...

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

> Adults should be allowed to have any mind state they want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. You cannot know in advance what mental state a given drug will put a specific adult in (in general, at least), and thus you cannot predict whether there will be harm to others or not. This is not an argument for prohibition; it is an argument against a "legalize all drugs" position.

rantwasp 5y ago
you can. it's called research. it can be done (if it hasn't already been done) on virtually any drug. education + choice are key when it comes to deciding if you want to try drug X. this should be a personal choice not something big brother decides.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  You think you can predict someone's response to major hallucinogens? Even with cannabis, among my friends and family who use it, there's a wide variation in response, particularly in levels of reported paranoia. Research will clarify the statistical level, but isn't necessarily of much help with predicting individual results.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    Psychedelics ("hallucinogens" is a pejorative, inaccurate, and outdated term) are some of the most unpredictable of drugs, but there's been a lot of research that has shown the chances of a constructive experience can be maximized with the right dose, set and setting, especially if trained support and integration is available. Many of the people who suffer from paranoia and other adverse effects from psychedelics probably take them in the wrong setting, with the wrong setting, and in too high a dose for their experience level.. and often unsupervised too. Education will help here, but ultimately less than ideal use can't be completely eliminated as some people won't care, won't listen, won't believe, etc... But even that kind of use will be way, way, way safer if the substances they take are legal, since they can at least be certain they'll be taking what they thought they bought and they can be sure of the substance's purity and dosage. On the black market it's all a crapshoot, and lots of people have died that way (even if they don't get shot by a cop in a raid or get murdered in jail if they get arrested and imprisoned).

notsureaboutpg 5y ago

>Adults should be allowed to have any mind state they want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. I mean, exactly the issue here is that if you allow all adults to take as much meth as they want, they will start hurting someone else indirectly.