2 ms·

It seems disingenuous to me to ignore the absolute harm that menthol cigarettes have done to communities over the past several decades, lump that in with mariju

by mholm 5y ago

It seems disingenuous to me to ignore the absolute harm that menthol cigarettes have done to communities over the past several decades, lump that in with marijuana, and act like they should be treated similarly. This change will likely save hundreds of thousands of lives in the United States[1]. Yes, small freedoms are being taken away. This violates the libertarian ideal. The 90's crime bill you cite is absolutely an issue, and the pardons were good. But sometimes objective freedom and making America better go in different directions, and not always on political lines. [1]: https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2021/03/31/tobaccocontrol-2020-056259 https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2021/03/31/toba...

busymom0 5y ago
> But sometimes objective freedom and making America better go in different directions I don't see how thousands of people locked up for exercising their basic liberties is somehow "making America better". > It seems disingenuous to me to ignore the absolute harm that menthol cigarettes have done to communities over the past several decades Nobody is ignoring the harm. It's obvious. But that can be said about all the drugs, pharmaceuticals too. And alcohol, sugars and junk food has done a lot more damage than what some cigarettes or drugs could ever do. Even flavoured cigars are being banned. Why??? I don't want the government to play nanny state. That's why I want all drugs legalized, not just weed. More black families and several white families have been destroyed because of the failed war on drugs which has led to kids growing without fathers who are locked up in prison. "On average, African Americans initiate smoking at a later age compared to Whites." and "African Americans smoke fewer cigarettes per day": https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/disparities/african-americans/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/disparities/african-americans/in... So most adult blacks are making conscious decisions themselves to start smoking when they are adults and not kids. And since 86% of blacks and 46% of hispanics prefer menthol cigarettes over regular ones, the adults enjoy that flavour. But this ban is patronizing them as if the adult blacks are too stupid to think for themselves, so the politicians must treat them as they treat kids and make the decisions to take away bad things from them. https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/products-ingredients-components/menthol-and-other-flavors-tobacco-products https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/products-ingredients-co... Instead of making changes so that youth can't get a hand on it, they are banning it because according to their own set standards, somehow adults of these communities are unable to think for themselves. This will end up locking more people of these communities in prison.
- mholm 5y ago
  You're making some good points, but I think addiction, as a whole, subverts the ideal of 'think for themselves'. Your own CDC link states that 72.8% of African Americans want to quit. Addiction cessation programs might seem patronizing, but the vast majority of people can't do it alone. Even adults don't have access to all the information when they make a choice, especially those in lower income communities. If we had better publicly available addiction treatments, or improved the conditions that lead people to start smoking, then sure, legalize them. The current market doesn't reflect honest and fully informed consumer choice, and that's where I believe the state should come in. It's likely that we won't find a middle ground here.
  - busymom0 5y ago
    All of that can be applied to every single decision we make in life. Pretty much every human "want to quit" sugars, junk food, exercise more, eat healthy etc. It's definitely more than the % which wants to quit smoking. That doesn't mean we should government come in and ban sugars, junk food, force exercise and force people to eat salads. That's straight out of a Black Mirror episode where people are forced to do these things. > The current market doesn't reflect honest and fully informed consumer choice I don't think you are correct here at all. The tobacco industry and sales is very heavily regulated. They can't even have ads broadcast plus are hidden behind counter at stores. And as I presented in the CDC stats, vast majority of the blacks pick up smoking when they become adults and not kids. So they are already making "fully informed consumer choice". And a significantly small population actually smokes anyway. Junk food on the other hand which takes more lives, has more addiction and is consumed by kids doesn't have much regulation. There can be better steps which can be taken such as "those who don't smoke" get a tax rebate for example.

by mholm 5y ago

busymom0 5y ago

> But sometimes objective freedom and making America better go in different directions I don't see how thousands of people locked up for exercising their basic liberties is somehow "making America better". > It seems disingenuous to me to ignore the absolute harm that menthol cigarettes have done to communities over the past several decades Nobody is ignoring the harm. It's obvious. But that can be said about all the drugs, pharmaceuticals too. And alcohol, sugars and junk food has done a lot more damage than what some cigarettes or drugs could ever do. Even flavoured cigars are being banned. Why??? I don't want the government to play nanny state. That's why I want all drugs legalized, not just weed. More black families and several white families have been destroyed because of the failed war on drugs which has led to kids growing without fathers who are locked up in prison. "On average, African Americans initiate smoking at a later age compared to Whites." and "African Americans smoke fewer cigarettes per day": https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/disparities/african-americans/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/disparities/african-americans/in... So most adult blacks are making conscious decisions themselves to start smoking when they are adults and not kids. And since 86% of blacks and 46% of hispanics prefer menthol cigarettes over regular ones, the adults enjoy that flavour. But this ban is patronizing them as if the adult blacks are too stupid to think for themselves, so the politicians must treat them as they treat kids and make the decisions to take away bad things from them. https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/products-ingredients-components/menthol-and-other-flavors-tobacco-products https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/products-ingredients-co... Instead of making changes so that youth can't get a hand on it, they are banning it because according to their own set standards, somehow adults of these communities are unable to think for themselves. This will end up locking more people of these communities in prison.

mholm 5y ago
You're making some good points, but I think addiction, as a whole, subverts the ideal of 'think for themselves'. Your own CDC link states that 72.8% of African Americans want to quit. Addiction cessation programs might seem patronizing, but the vast majority of people can't do it alone. Even adults don't have access to all the information when they make a choice, especially those in lower income communities. If we had better publicly available addiction treatments, or improved the conditions that lead people to start smoking, then sure, legalize them. The current market doesn't reflect honest and fully informed consumer choice, and that's where I believe the state should come in. It's likely that we won't find a middle ground here.
- busymom0 5y ago
  All of that can be applied to every single decision we make in life. Pretty much every human "want to quit" sugars, junk food, exercise more, eat healthy etc. It's definitely more than the % which wants to quit smoking. That doesn't mean we should government come in and ban sugars, junk food, force exercise and force people to eat salads. That's straight out of a Black Mirror episode where people are forced to do these things. > The current market doesn't reflect honest and fully informed consumer choice I don't think you are correct here at all. The tobacco industry and sales is very heavily regulated. They can't even have ads broadcast plus are hidden behind counter at stores. And as I presented in the CDC stats, vast majority of the blacks pick up smoking when they become adults and not kids. So they are already making "fully informed consumer choice". And a significantly small population actually smokes anyway. Junk food on the other hand which takes more lives, has more addiction and is consumed by kids doesn't have much regulation. There can be better steps which can be taken such as "those who don't smoke" get a tax rebate for example.