5 ms·

Please don't assume the question is "disingenuous." It's an invitation to talk about what's going on, and bring the manager into the loop. Most managers really

Please don't assume the question is "disingenuous." It's an invitation to talk about what's going on, and bring the manager into the loop. Most managers really do want to help! More concerning to me is the "I always lose my job or quit." It sounds a lot like you're running into a pattern in your life which causes you to underperform. If it's emotional or mental, please consider seeking counseling. Brain chemistry can send a person on a roller coaster, and counselors really can help. If the problem is simply that you are bored with the work, then could you move on sooner to a new job? Better to find new stuff than get bored so much it affects your work.

mgarfias 5y ago
Not just brain stuff, I’m a walking example of weird hormone issues screwing up my ability to work well
- atatatat 5y ago
  Endocrine -> nervous -> brain..?
- cjensen 5y ago
  Right? We all have our issues. When it affects our wellbeing we should all remember to try to get help. If the Medical profession can't make it all better, many managers will accommodate -- it's actually easier to accommodate someone who is trying to get help.
ratww 5y ago
> Please don't assume the question is "disingenuous." It's an invitation to talk about what's going on, and bring the manager into the loop. Most managers really do want to help! ^ That's a very important reply. Whenever I send one of those messages like OP quoted, what I really mean is to ask if there's anything I can do to help. A manager is not an old-school "boss" responsible for cracking the whip. Managers exist to coordinate, organise, bridge communication, remove obstacles... It takes several conversations with higher-ups and with HR for a manager to fire someone, and if I fire people too often people start questioning my ability to hire and manage. However I notice that the specific message on OP is a bit ambiguous, I would personally add some suggestions ("do this instead", "let's ask X for help, they have experience with this kinda stuff").
- jiofih 5y ago
  Why not ask direct & clear then? I also think it sounds disingenuous. This kind of passive-aggression is what “cracking the whip” feels like for employees.
  - 100011_100001 5y ago
    I am trying really hard to resist judging you by your comment, but I will try. Human empathy and emotional intelligence appears to lead to a common pattern in communications. For personal questions, you always want to ask gently and not aggressively. This of course, for a lot of developers appears like an anti-pattern. We like machines, probably because humans are confusing with vague inputs and totally erratic outputs. However the whole "I say things bluntly" approach will at some point limit the developer. "Hard to work with" becomes a thing. Of course this can be hidden blessing for a dev that likes working on code in isolation and not interact with people. From a management stand point though it's a little flag about that person. Now the funny thing is some of the same people that like to speak bluntly tend to not like it when others are blunt with them. Regardless, let's try this exercise. Which one of these two paragraphs sound "better" a) "Hey X, hope you're doing well. Just wanted to check in and see if you'll still be doing N things from here on out, or if you've been spending more time doing ___. If there's anything I can help with please let me know." vs b) "Hey X. You haven't being doing N things, and it doesn't seem like you have been doing more of _____. Get your act together or start looking for a new job." The interesting thing to me is that your interpretation of (a) is that it's passive-aggression, "cracking the whip". That it's disingenuous...and I guess this is when I am going to start judging you... What if you are wrong? What if the manager is concerned about the well being of their employee? Why do you feel like it's aggressive? I will like to postulate that the email is actually very well written. The problem with "direct & clear" is that the manager would have to be making assumptions. Maybe they are working on _____ and not N. He might not know, he might have suspicions, but he can't be sure. Also if someone is having problems telling them that they appear sad / depressed / unproductive creates more stress to some people. Ever been upset that you got upset? In essence the manager is communicating. They are saying please give me an update on what you are working on. They are giving her an out, to say "I am working on ____", so in essence they assume good intentions. They are also asking about N. Have they stopped working on it? Is it a lull? Furthermore they are allowing for the employee to bring up any blockers or issues she is facing. The key point is though, they didn't make any assumptions. They are trying to find out the reality of that employee.
entropyie 5y ago
I think the idea that work should always be engaging and meaningful is a harmful fallacy that is setting young people up for failure. Even the greatest rock-star or sports celebrity spends the majority of their time doing hard, repetitive or tedious work leading up to their moments of glory. I personally find that when I set my expectations appropriately, and find ways to link the tedious work to a larger goal/milestone that I am at least somewhat invested in that it helps with motivation. It doesn't have to be finding the cure for cancer, it could be hitting your sales goal for the month, improving the customer experience, or saving up for a new electric guitar. Another trick that helps is researching things you are going to need for upcoming work, before they are urgent and become a dreaded deadline. It's kind of a mind trick to say to yourself "Hey, I'm looking into this stuff because I'm interested, not because I HAVE TO". I've done this for school exams and work related projects. Failing that, there are other time management strategies like the Pomodoro technique. Obviously there are limits and it's not a bad idea to pursue more meaningful work,but it shouldn't be a frequent pattern. Regardless, engage with your manager as suggested, show that you are trying to succeed and hopefully you will find a solution together.
- evrydayhustling 5y ago
  Another riff on this: When people find their jobs interesting, it's almost never because someone else has sent them work they find interesting on a silver platter. The work you're being asked to do is connected to goals, processes, and people in your organization... can you find something in your environment that you have the skills and interest to improve? A good manager will help you find those opportunities when you feel stuck, but in the end nobody is better suited than you are to find your interests, whether it's within your workplace or the world at large.
- castlecrasher2 5y ago
  >I think the idea that work should always be engaging and meaningful is a harmful fallacy that is setting young people up for failure. I agree. I used to think exactly this, until I eventually realized that work should be engaging because I find it engaging, not because it is naturally engaging, and it's up to me to set that attitude.

mgarfias 5y ago

Not just brain stuff, I’m a walking example of weird hormone issues screwing up my ability to work well

atatatat 5y ago
Endocrine -> nervous -> brain..?
cjensen 5y ago
Right? We all have our issues. When it affects our wellbeing we should all remember to try to get help. If the Medical profession can't make it all better, many managers will accommodate -- it's actually easier to accommodate someone who is trying to get help.

ratww 5y ago

> Please don't assume the question is "disingenuous." It's an invitation to talk about what's going on, and bring the manager into the loop. Most managers really do want to help! ^ That's a very important reply. Whenever I send one of those messages like OP quoted, what I really mean is to ask if there's anything I can do to help. A manager is not an old-school "boss" responsible for cracking the whip. Managers exist to coordinate, organise, bridge communication, remove obstacles... It takes several conversations with higher-ups and with HR for a manager to fire someone, and if I fire people too often people start questioning my ability to hire and manage. However I notice that the specific message on OP is a bit ambiguous, I would personally add some suggestions ("do this instead", "let's ask X for help, they have experience with this kinda stuff").

jiofih 5y ago
Why not ask direct & clear then? I also think it sounds disingenuous. This kind of passive-aggression is what “cracking the whip” feels like for employees.
- 100011_100001 5y ago
  I am trying really hard to resist judging you by your comment, but I will try. Human empathy and emotional intelligence appears to lead to a common pattern in communications. For personal questions, you always want to ask gently and not aggressively. This of course, for a lot of developers appears like an anti-pattern. We like machines, probably because humans are confusing with vague inputs and totally erratic outputs. However the whole "I say things bluntly" approach will at some point limit the developer. "Hard to work with" becomes a thing. Of course this can be hidden blessing for a dev that likes working on code in isolation and not interact with people. From a management stand point though it's a little flag about that person. Now the funny thing is some of the same people that like to speak bluntly tend to not like it when others are blunt with them. Regardless, let's try this exercise. Which one of these two paragraphs sound "better" a) "Hey X, hope you're doing well. Just wanted to check in and see if you'll still be doing N things from here on out, or if you've been spending more time doing ___. If there's anything I can help with please let me know." vs b) "Hey X. You haven't being doing N things, and it doesn't seem like you have been doing more of _____. Get your act together or start looking for a new job." The interesting thing to me is that your interpretation of (a) is that it's passive-aggression, "cracking the whip". That it's disingenuous...and I guess this is when I am going to start judging you... What if you are wrong? What if the manager is concerned about the well being of their employee? Why do you feel like it's aggressive? I will like to postulate that the email is actually very well written. The problem with "direct & clear" is that the manager would have to be making assumptions. Maybe they are working on _____ and not N. He might not know, he might have suspicions, but he can't be sure. Also if someone is having problems telling them that they appear sad / depressed / unproductive creates more stress to some people. Ever been upset that you got upset? In essence the manager is communicating. They are saying please give me an update on what you are working on. They are giving her an out, to say "I am working on ____", so in essence they assume good intentions. They are also asking about N. Have they stopped working on it? Is it a lull? Furthermore they are allowing for the employee to bring up any blockers or issues she is facing. The key point is though, they didn't make any assumptions. They are trying to find out the reality of that employee.

entropyie 5y ago

I think the idea that work should always be engaging and meaningful is a harmful fallacy that is setting young people up for failure. Even the greatest rock-star or sports celebrity spends the majority of their time doing hard, repetitive or tedious work leading up to their moments of glory. I personally find that when I set my expectations appropriately, and find ways to link the tedious work to a larger goal/milestone that I am at least somewhat invested in that it helps with motivation. It doesn't have to be finding the cure for cancer, it could be hitting your sales goal for the month, improving the customer experience, or saving up for a new electric guitar. Another trick that helps is researching things you are going to need for upcoming work, before they are urgent and become a dreaded deadline. It's kind of a mind trick to say to yourself "Hey, I'm looking into this stuff because I'm interested, not because I HAVE TO". I've done this for school exams and work related projects. Failing that, there are other time management strategies like the Pomodoro technique. Obviously there are limits and it's not a bad idea to pursue more meaningful work,but it shouldn't be a frequent pattern. Regardless, engage with your manager as suggested, show that you are trying to succeed and hopefully you will find a solution together.

evrydayhustling 5y ago
Another riff on this: When people find their jobs interesting, it's almost never because someone else has sent them work they find interesting on a silver platter. The work you're being asked to do is connected to goals, processes, and people in your organization... can you find something in your environment that you have the skills and interest to improve? A good manager will help you find those opportunities when you feel stuck, but in the end nobody is better suited than you are to find your interests, whether it's within your workplace or the world at large.
castlecrasher2 5y ago
>I think the idea that work should always be engaging and meaningful is a harmful fallacy that is setting young people up for failure. I agree. I used to think exactly this, until I eventually realized that work should be engaging because I find it engaging, not because it is naturally engaging, and it's up to me to set that attitude.