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Morabito Consulting did a survey almost 3 years before, listing repairs that needed to be done. I think images like this is just evidence that lawyers will accu

Morabito Consulting did a survey almost 3 years before, listing repairs that needed to be done. I think images like this is just evidence that lawyers will accumulate. The media will just use these images to add drama. In West Seattle, they shut down the bridge from cracks, but it did take them a while. >>Those taut tendons serve to push the concrete together like giant rubber bands. They help the concrete resist the gravity and other forces that could crack or otherwise pull it apart. >>“In most cases [of] cracked concrete, you're not too bothered about the concrete not operating properly,” Stanton said. “You are worried about the steel inside becoming corroded.” https://www.kuow.org/stories/city-has-known-about-cracks-in-west-seattle-bridge-since-2013 https://www.kuow.org/stories/city-has-known-about-cracks-in-...

irjustin 5y ago
oh wow, i'm from Seattle (abroad since 2013) and didn't know that bridge closed! Such a major artery to West Seattle being shut down. Getting in and out of Alki must be annoying af. Obviously great that they caught it and have a rapid response, but pretty crazy.
- NegativeLatency 5y ago
  It’s in a tunnel now, kinda a big deal for a long time. The TBM got stuck and stuff
  - nutellatoast 5y ago
    They're referring to the West Seattle Bridge, which was recently closed due to structural issues. It seems you're referring to the Alaskan Way Viaduct, which was also not structurally sound, but was replaced with a tunnel.
paul_f 5y ago
I keep hearing about lawyers, but who exactly gets sued? The victims are also the building owners. Seems it was their responsibility?
- znkynz 5y ago
  Some people may have been renters, rather than owners.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > I keep hearing about lawyers, but who exactly gets sued? Whoever arguably had an unfulfilled duty. I’d say the condo association and its individual officers (who would have received the damage reports and arguably failed in their duty of care to owners and indirectly renters with regard to them) would be a good candidate. For renters or their families, their individual landlords would also be potential targets.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    The condo association officers are likely volunteers, elected by the condo owners, and indemnified by the association. They are just homeowners like everyone else, unlikely to have any expertise in engineering or understanding engineering reports. And possibly also now dead.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > The condo association officers are likely volunteers, elected by the condo owners, and indemnified by the association. Indemnity tends to have limited scope, and whether a particular claim is within it is a question resolved in a lawsuit. > They are just homeowners like everyone else No, they aren't, because they are differently situated. > unlikely to have any expertise in engineering or understanding engineering reports. Special expertise is not required for culpabale negligence or culpable non-, mis-, or malfeasance. Whether, for instance, the reports they received provided sufficient notice of danger that they should, under the duty of carr applicable, have acted differently and their failure to so contributed to the harms to persons and property in the collapse is...precisely the kind of question resolved in a lawsuit. > And possibly also now dead. Death does not erase legal liabilities, generally. Its true that, after published notice of death, there is usually a limited time to file claims against the estate (which, with a live defendant, might have more time under applicable statutes of limitations, etc.) But that just adds urgency to identifying and acting on potential claims here, where, yes, some of the potential defendants might also have died in the event.
Aloha 5y ago
The media has treated the report from from the consulting engineers as a semi-smoking gun, I read it - I have a background in civil construction and work in another engineering adjacent field, and if the issues they identified ends up being the root cause of this event, then I think that this will be a case study in how engineers need to learn to communicate both urgency and seriousness to non-engineers. If this guy honestly felt that the building was at risk of imminent failure - which is what the media generally has been implying, it was not sufficiently communicated in the language used in the report, which fails to convey any sense of urgency. There is a whole bunch of pro-forma jargon, and pro-speak however, which seems to mask whatever its trying to say, and drains away the urgency from this.
- ryana 5y ago
  Honest question, would a 3 year time-to-failure be considered imminent?
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    Consider the de Soto bridge in Memphis, TN, the one that carries the I-40 over the Mississippi. A crack in a main truss was found earlier the year during a scheduled inspection, and the bridge was closed immediately. Some guy on a holiday took photos in 2016, and the crack was visible then: https://www.wmcactionnews5.com/2021/05/18/photos-show-i-bridge-damage https://www.wmcactionnews5.com/2021/05/18/photos-show-i-brid... So - yes, things hold up until they suddenly fall over.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  You wonder if there were political reasons behind the language used - the building should have been condemned since it was at immediate risk of collapse, but rich people do not like to be inconvenienced. So the engineer decided to protect himself, he told and hid the truth at the same time.
beerandt 5y ago
>Morabito Consulting did a survey almost 3 years before, listing repairs that needed to be done. It had more money budgeted for landscaping than actual replacement of anything structural (which was just 2500sqft of garage decking). Even that would probably better be described as waterproofing. There was a lot of waterproofing, electrical, and HVAC work, as should be expected on a building that old. But there was nothing in that proposal that would have done anything at all to prevent this. The best case would have maybe been to uncover the real problems earlier, but most of the structural and waterproofing work was near the pool, which we know survived. So probably not.

irjustin 5y ago

oh wow, i'm from Seattle (abroad since 2013) and didn't know that bridge closed! Such a major artery to West Seattle being shut down. Getting in and out of Alki must be annoying af. Obviously great that they caught it and have a rapid response, but pretty crazy.

NegativeLatency 5y ago
It’s in a tunnel now, kinda a big deal for a long time. The TBM got stuck and stuff
- nutellatoast 5y ago
  They're referring to the West Seattle Bridge, which was recently closed due to structural issues. It seems you're referring to the Alaskan Way Viaduct, which was also not structurally sound, but was replaced with a tunnel.

paul_f 5y ago

I keep hearing about lawyers, but who exactly gets sued? The victims are also the building owners. Seems it was their responsibility?

znkynz 5y ago
Some people may have been renters, rather than owners.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dragonwriter 5y ago
> I keep hearing about lawyers, but who exactly gets sued? Whoever arguably had an unfulfilled duty. I’d say the condo association and its individual officers (who would have received the damage reports and arguably failed in their duty of care to owners and indirectly renters with regard to them) would be a good candidate. For renters or their families, their individual landlords would also be potential targets.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  The condo association officers are likely volunteers, elected by the condo owners, and indemnified by the association. They are just homeowners like everyone else, unlikely to have any expertise in engineering or understanding engineering reports. And possibly also now dead.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > The condo association officers are likely volunteers, elected by the condo owners, and indemnified by the association. Indemnity tends to have limited scope, and whether a particular claim is within it is a question resolved in a lawsuit. > They are just homeowners like everyone else No, they aren't, because they are differently situated. > unlikely to have any expertise in engineering or understanding engineering reports. Special expertise is not required for culpabale negligence or culpable non-, mis-, or malfeasance. Whether, for instance, the reports they received provided sufficient notice of danger that they should, under the duty of carr applicable, have acted differently and their failure to so contributed to the harms to persons and property in the collapse is...precisely the kind of question resolved in a lawsuit. > And possibly also now dead. Death does not erase legal liabilities, generally. Its true that, after published notice of death, there is usually a limited time to file claims against the estate (which, with a live defendant, might have more time under applicable statutes of limitations, etc.) But that just adds urgency to identifying and acting on potential claims here, where, yes, some of the potential defendants might also have died in the event.

Aloha 5y ago

The media has treated the report from from the consulting engineers as a semi-smoking gun, I read it - I have a background in civil construction and work in another engineering adjacent field, and if the issues they identified ends up being the root cause of this event, then I think that this will be a case study in how engineers need to learn to communicate both urgency and seriousness to non-engineers. If this guy honestly felt that the building was at risk of imminent failure - which is what the media generally has been implying, it was not sufficiently communicated in the language used in the report, which fails to convey any sense of urgency. There is a whole bunch of pro-forma jargon, and pro-speak however, which seems to mask whatever its trying to say, and drains away the urgency from this.

ryana 5y ago
Honest question, would a 3 year time-to-failure be considered imminent?
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  Consider the de Soto bridge in Memphis, TN, the one that carries the I-40 over the Mississippi. A crack in a main truss was found earlier the year during a scheduled inspection, and the bridge was closed immediately. Some guy on a holiday took photos in 2016, and the crack was visible then: https://www.wmcactionnews5.com/2021/05/18/photos-show-i-bridge-damage https://www.wmcactionnews5.com/2021/05/18/photos-show-i-brid... So - yes, things hold up until they suddenly fall over.
HarryHirsch 5y ago
You wonder if there were political reasons behind the language used - the building should have been condemned since it was at immediate risk of collapse, but rich people do not like to be inconvenienced. So the engineer decided to protect himself, he told and hid the truth at the same time.

beerandt 5y ago

>Morabito Consulting did a survey almost 3 years before, listing repairs that needed to be done. It had more money budgeted for landscaping than actual replacement of anything structural (which was just 2500sqft of garage decking). Even that would probably better be described as waterproofing. There was a lot of waterproofing, electrical, and HVAC work, as should be expected on a building that old. But there was nothing in that proposal that would have done anything at all to prevent this. The best case would have maybe been to uncover the real problems earlier, but most of the structural and waterproofing work was near the pool, which we know survived. So probably not.