4 ms·

It has been decriminalized then re-criminalized [1] before. To end this loop, lets just legalize anything that doesn't hurt others and let people decide what i

It has been decriminalized then re-criminalized [1] before. To end this loop, lets just legalize anything that doesn't hurt others and let people decide what is good or bad for themselves, given we follow this logic on substances and habits such as alcohol, sugar, sun bathing, throwing darts, parachuting, hang-gliding, replying to emails whilst drunk. I would wager that driving a car is a higher risk to others than inhaling or ingesting a drug though I don't have statistics to back that up. [1] - https://theconversation.com/re-criminalizing-cannabis-is-worse-than-1930s-reefer-madness-89821 https://theconversation.com/re-criminalizing-cannabis-is-wor...

jimbob45 5y ago
Addiction hurts others though. You can’t get physically addicted to most of the things you listed.
- LinuxBender 5y ago
  True, mostly. People do get addicted to sugar and alcohol. Though it appears about 30% of people get addicted to MJ use [1] which makes them moody or restless. Does that really hurt others, more so than someone not getting their coffee in the morning? I get moody without my coffee. The other issues they list appear to only affect the person with the dependency. I suppose if we go down the rabbit hole, if a person is so moody they lose their job and they have children dependent on them, that's a problem. I would put that in the same category as drinking on the job though. [1] - https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...
  - petre 5y ago
    Except some people would go home from the job and do it in front of their kids.
umvi 5y ago
> To end this loop, lets just legalize anything that doesn't hurt others Everything hurts others. People and their actions don't exist in a vacuum - we are all players on a team called "society"; the actions of people, even if done privately, can end up affecting the performance of the team. Cars, alcohol, and tobacco are all legal, and all of those things end up harming others directly or through second/third order effects. I'm not necessarily against decriminalizing or even legalizing marijuana, but I don't think the reason for doing so should be because it "doesn't hurt others", but rather because governments should infringe on liberties as little as possible even if it means bad consequences could emerge from abuse of said liberties.
- LinuxBender 5y ago
  I also agree that governments should not infringe on liberties.
- solatic 5y ago
  > People and their actions don't exist in a vacuum - we are all players on a team called "society" If you really want to think of it as a system, then the proper way to think of drug usage is as an escape valve for societal issues like loneliness, hopelessness, etc. If so, then it's important to legalize it so that it can be monitored and measured; if it's measured, then society's government can focus on reducing that measurement as low as possible by treating the systemic issues and not the symptom.
  - username90 5y ago
    You do realize that lots of people will hurt themselves with drugs making them unhappy? It being legal for them is bad. You are sacrificing those people just so you can get high. Look around yourself, how many people are fat? That is how well people will responsibly use drugs. A large majority lacks the self control to properly use these substances and the law helps them do it.
    - solatic 5y ago
      I think you're subtly making my point. If criminalizing drugs doesn't prevent drug abuse, and legalizing sugar etc. doesn't prevent abuse, then what effect, really, does legalization or prohibition have on abuse? Your comparison to the obesity epidemic is a non-sequitur. People abuse drugs to fill an emotional hole in their lives. While that does sometimes happen with food, most overweight people in the US are generally happy. The obesity epidemic isn't caused by people abusing sugar to escape unfulfilling lives; it's caused by callous government policy that makes healthy food expensive and junk food cheap. Too many Americans genuinely lack access to healthy options, let alone ones that are economical.
rayiner 5y ago
> To end this loop, lets just legalize anything that doesn't hurt others and let people decide what is good or bad for themselves I used to think that but I don’t anymore. Not having your shut together and not being a contributing member of society hurts others, so drugs aren’t harmless. Drug users are people’s kids, parents, etc., who have responsibilities and often can’t meet them because of their drug use and that hurts people. And the ship has probably sailed on letting drug users die in the street if they need help so the cost of welfare and services are also a burden. The real question to me is whether making drugs illegal actually creates more burdens than it avoids. I suspect the answer is that if the culture condones drug use, you’ve already lost that battle and making it illegal is pointless. Laws should help reinforce norms. If the norms have broken down, enforcement of the law needs to be too coercive to be feasible. For example divorce also imposes tremendous social costs, but we probably can’t fix that by repealing no-fault divorce laws.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  I think anyone who cares about others and has seen what truly addictive substances like oxy and heroin do to people thinks the same. They literally lose their mind. There's no "bootstrappin'" when it comes to that, it becomes an intervention or nothing. Sure a few folks come back from that abyss, but not many without the help of others. Those type of substances clearly need to be only allowed when nothing else is a solution and heavily controlled by the government.
  - Karunamon 5y ago
    >Those type of substances clearly need to be only allowed when nothing else is a solution and heavily controlled by the government. That policy hasn't historically worked well.
- samatman 5y ago
  Getting thrown in jail or prison isn't exactly harmless to the families of the imprisoned either.
- pmoriarty 5y ago

jimbob45 5y ago

Addiction hurts others though. You can’t get physically addicted to most of the things you listed.

LinuxBender 5y ago
True, mostly. People do get addicted to sugar and alcohol. Though it appears about 30% of people get addicted to MJ use [1] which makes them moody or restless. Does that really hurt others, more so than someone not getting their coffee in the morning? I get moody without my coffee. The other issues they list appear to only affect the person with the dependency. I suppose if we go down the rabbit hole, if a person is so moody they lose their job and they have children dependent on them, that's a problem. I would put that in the same category as drinking on the job though. [1] - https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...
- petre 5y ago
  Except some people would go home from the job and do it in front of their kids.

umvi 5y ago

> To end this loop, lets just legalize anything that doesn't hurt others Everything hurts others. People and their actions don't exist in a vacuum - we are all players on a team called "society"; the actions of people, even if done privately, can end up affecting the performance of the team. Cars, alcohol, and tobacco are all legal, and all of those things end up harming others directly or through second/third order effects. I'm not necessarily against decriminalizing or even legalizing marijuana, but I don't think the reason for doing so should be because it "doesn't hurt others", but rather because governments should infringe on liberties as little as possible even if it means bad consequences could emerge from abuse of said liberties.

LinuxBender 5y ago
I also agree that governments should not infringe on liberties.
solatic 5y ago
> People and their actions don't exist in a vacuum - we are all players on a team called "society" If you really want to think of it as a system, then the proper way to think of drug usage is as an escape valve for societal issues like loneliness, hopelessness, etc. If so, then it's important to legalize it so that it can be monitored and measured; if it's measured, then society's government can focus on reducing that measurement as low as possible by treating the systemic issues and not the symptom.
- username90 5y ago
  You do realize that lots of people will hurt themselves with drugs making them unhappy? It being legal for them is bad. You are sacrificing those people just so you can get high. Look around yourself, how many people are fat? That is how well people will responsibly use drugs. A large majority lacks the self control to properly use these substances and the law helps them do it.
  - solatic 5y ago
    I think you're subtly making my point. If criminalizing drugs doesn't prevent drug abuse, and legalizing sugar etc. doesn't prevent abuse, then what effect, really, does legalization or prohibition have on abuse? Your comparison to the obesity epidemic is a non-sequitur. People abuse drugs to fill an emotional hole in their lives. While that does sometimes happen with food, most overweight people in the US are generally happy. The obesity epidemic isn't caused by people abusing sugar to escape unfulfilling lives; it's caused by callous government policy that makes healthy food expensive and junk food cheap. Too many Americans genuinely lack access to healthy options, let alone ones that are economical.

rayiner 5y ago

> To end this loop, lets just legalize anything that doesn't hurt others and let people decide what is good or bad for themselves I used to think that but I don’t anymore. Not having your shut together and not being a contributing member of society hurts others, so drugs aren’t harmless. Drug users are people’s kids, parents, etc., who have responsibilities and often can’t meet them because of their drug use and that hurts people. And the ship has probably sailed on letting drug users die in the street if they need help so the cost of welfare and services are also a burden. The real question to me is whether making drugs illegal actually creates more burdens than it avoids. I suspect the answer is that if the culture condones drug use, you’ve already lost that battle and making it illegal is pointless. Laws should help reinforce norms. If the norms have broken down, enforcement of the law needs to be too coercive to be feasible. For example divorce also imposes tremendous social costs, but we probably can’t fix that by repealing no-fault divorce laws.

stjohnswarts 5y ago
I think anyone who cares about others and has seen what truly addictive substances like oxy and heroin do to people thinks the same. They literally lose their mind. There's no "bootstrappin'" when it comes to that, it becomes an intervention or nothing. Sure a few folks come back from that abyss, but not many without the help of others. Those type of substances clearly need to be only allowed when nothing else is a solution and heavily controlled by the government.
- Karunamon 5y ago
  >Those type of substances clearly need to be only allowed when nothing else is a solution and heavily controlled by the government. That policy hasn't historically worked well.
samatman 5y ago
Getting thrown in jail or prison isn't exactly harmless to the families of the imprisoned either.
pmoriarty 5y ago