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To be clear, your justification for why YouTube needs to censor themselves - "anti-science activists leading an otherwise-developed country to top the chart in

by makomk 5y ago

To be clear, your justification for why YouTube needs to censor themselves - "anti-science activists leading an otherwise-developed country to top the chart in pandemic deaths" - is itself widely-believed misinformation. Here's the current top of the Covid-19 deaths per capita chart: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deat... Peru, Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Czechia, North Macedonia. I'm not sure the USA has ever topped the chart. (Czechia is particularly interesting - they were the European "success story" the British press pointed to earlier in the pandemic as proof that the UK should be able to do better and our government failed us. In reality, they probably just got lucky the first time around. Actually, most of the success stories probably did.) Now, a lot of less honest publications like to compare the total number of deaths in order to cynically take advantage of the fact that there are few countries as big as the USA, but of course that's a nonsense comparison. If the USA was instead split up into 50 countries, it'd be much further down that ranking even if the exact same number of people died.

woodruffw 5y ago
> Here's the current top of the Covid-19 deaths per capita chart: Peru, Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Czechia, North Macedonia. I don't know where you got this list from. JHU's database[1] shows Peru and Brazil at the top for the per-capita statistic (not CFR). Brazil, conspicuously, has a COVID-denialist leader, refused a general lockdown, and is currently #3 in the world for deaths. [1]: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
- makomk 5y ago
  Edited my comment to include a link. The chart you've linked only include the "twenty countries currently most affected by COVID-19 worldwide", whatever that means. Probably something to do with current cases or recent deaths. The numbers I found match that chart for the countries which are on it, but Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Czechia, North Macedonia, and Bulgaria just weren't included even though they would've been higher than Brazil if they were. Edited: as someone pointed out, there's a sortable table further down which gives the same ranking as I quoted, except it includes a couple of additional micro-countries with only a few thousand people. (Also, Brazil is probably pretty representative of South America as a whole, they just seem to have better testing than other countries there and likely report more of their Covid deaths than others. I know a while ago, there was some analysis suggesting Mexico had more Covid deaths than Brazil with a substantially lower population and was just massively under-reporting them due to missing testing.)
  - 8note 5y ago
    Are you certain about how those countries are reporting?
  - mathgorges 5y ago
    Check the Johns Hopkins link again (as an aside, JHU is the data source for the link whihch you've posted) Underneath that chart they break down data for many more than those 20 countries.
perl4ever 5y ago
>leading an otherwise-developed country to top the chart in pandemic deaths The US is currently 74th of 203 countries when counting new covid cases per capita in the last week. So my perception is people have mostly switched to shaming the US for "vaccine nationalism" and the like, and downplaying accusations of poor handling of the epidemic. (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#wee...)
LordDragonfang 5y ago
> If the USA was instead split up into 50 countries, it'd be much further down that ranking even if the exact same number of people died. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi... If states were countries, half of the top 20 per capita would consist of US States, with the other half essentially being developing nations. In fact, I'd say that the only reason the US per capita rate is as low as it is is that states like California (itself accounting for over a tenth of the population) actually took things seriously and brought down that average. Split hairs all you want, but the fact that the US at one point accounted for a quarter of all cases despite being 4% of the world's population is a stain on the whole country, and a significant argument that the US is directly to blame for the pandemic lasting as long as it did.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Maybe the reason for the large number of cases in the US is people are more mobile in the US. After all, one can travel to 50 states with no border checks. More mobility => faster spread.
  - simonh 5y ago
    It’s hard to argue that since the creation of the Schengen travel zone in Europe.
    - mmoskal 5y ago
      Travel between Schengen countries was heavily restricted for several months during the pandemic, much more so than travel between US states.
      - berkes 5y ago
        So: taking measures helps. Holding back does not help.
        5y ago
yesenadam 5y ago
>> top the chart in pandemic deaths Well, the USA does top the chart in pandemic deaths. You instead just talk about deaths per capita, and call that misinformation. Ok, but that's not what the GP was talking about. A total straw man. Then when you get around to mentioning total pandemic deaths, look at all the emotive words you pack into the sentence: > less honest publications like to compare the total number of deaths in order to cynically take advantage of the fact that there are few countries as big as the USA, but of course that's a nonsense comparison.

by makomk 5y ago

woodruffw 5y ago

> Here's the current top of the Covid-19 deaths per capita chart: Peru, Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Czechia, North Macedonia. I don't know where you got this list from. JHU's database[1] shows Peru and Brazil at the top for the per-capita statistic (not CFR). Brazil, conspicuously, has a COVID-denialist leader, refused a general lockdown, and is currently #3 in the world for deaths. [1]: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

makomk 5y ago
Edited my comment to include a link. The chart you've linked only include the "twenty countries currently most affected by COVID-19 worldwide", whatever that means. Probably something to do with current cases or recent deaths. The numbers I found match that chart for the countries which are on it, but Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Czechia, North Macedonia, and Bulgaria just weren't included even though they would've been higher than Brazil if they were. Edited: as someone pointed out, there's a sortable table further down which gives the same ranking as I quoted, except it includes a couple of additional micro-countries with only a few thousand people. (Also, Brazil is probably pretty representative of South America as a whole, they just seem to have better testing than other countries there and likely report more of their Covid deaths than others. I know a while ago, there was some analysis suggesting Mexico had more Covid deaths than Brazil with a substantially lower population and was just massively under-reporting them due to missing testing.)
- 8note 5y ago
  Are you certain about how those countries are reporting?
- mathgorges 5y ago
  Check the Johns Hopkins link again (as an aside, JHU is the data source for the link whihch you've posted) Underneath that chart they break down data for many more than those 20 countries.

perl4ever 5y ago

>leading an otherwise-developed country to top the chart in pandemic deaths The US is currently 74th of 203 countries when counting new covid cases per capita in the last week. So my perception is people have mostly switched to shaming the US for "vaccine nationalism" and the like, and downplaying accusations of poor handling of the epidemic. (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#wee...)

LordDragonfang 5y ago

> If the USA was instead split up into 50 countries, it'd be much further down that ranking even if the exact same number of people died. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi... If states were countries, half of the top 20 per capita would consist of US States, with the other half essentially being developing nations. In fact, I'd say that the only reason the US per capita rate is as low as it is is that states like California (itself accounting for over a tenth of the population) actually took things seriously and brought down that average. Split hairs all you want, but the fact that the US at one point accounted for a quarter of all cases despite being 4% of the world's population is a stain on the whole country, and a significant argument that the US is directly to blame for the pandemic lasting as long as it did.

WalterBright 5y ago
Maybe the reason for the large number of cases in the US is people are more mobile in the US. After all, one can travel to 50 states with no border checks. More mobility => faster spread.
- simonh 5y ago
  It’s hard to argue that since the creation of the Schengen travel zone in Europe.
  - mmoskal 5y ago
    Travel between Schengen countries was heavily restricted for several months during the pandemic, much more so than travel between US states.
    - berkes 5y ago
      So: taking measures helps. Holding back does not help.
      - 5y ago

yesenadam 5y ago

>> top the chart in pandemic deaths Well, the USA does top the chart in pandemic deaths. You instead just talk about deaths per capita, and call that misinformation. Ok, but that's not what the GP was talking about. A total straw man. Then when you get around to mentioning total pandemic deaths, look at all the emotive words you pack into the sentence: > less honest publications like to compare the total number of deaths in order to cynically take advantage of the fact that there are few countries as big as the USA, but of course that's a nonsense comparison.