3 ms·

And you boil all that down to 'JS is trash'? > JS = a single threaded event loop, ON PURPOSE. That directly affected Node.js as an implementation. That's not

by ljm 5y ago

And you boil all that down to 'JS is trash'? > JS = a single threaded event loop, ON PURPOSE. That directly affected Node.js as an implementation. That's not a criticism. It's not different to desktop app dev where you try to keep your processing away from the main thread, only it provides an easier interface through async programming. Synchronous = main thread; async = other thread. Amazingly intuitive model. > ES6 may have been ratified six years ago, but it's not the target code your front-end build chain spits out C++14 may have been ratified 7 years ago but it's not the target code your build chain spits out > Look, I've been programming JS since it was invented... You're free to write pure assembly, and you don't. > Regarding dynamic languages on microcontrollers Python in particular has made this kind of programming mainstream > Read a JS engines source code, study embedded C, and get back to me as to how suitable you find it for timing deterministic embedded programming. LOL You're gatekeeping, and that's also your ego. You need to work on that. > there's a reason that you can implement a lisp in c, but that the contrary is not viable nor makes any sense. What!? I can build C in Lisp as much as I can build any other language. I parse the syntax, create machine code, and output a binary. How the hell do you think languages are built? How do you think C was built? Just stop, man. It's not gibberish but it's bullshit.

eyelovewe 5y ago
Hey so can I write a device driver in JavaScript and is it a good language for that? How about my dma controller and python? What am I reading here. Not a comp sci major eh? Pass me something by reference in JavaScript, please
- ljm 5y ago
  What's your point, exactly? You can write a driver in practically any language. > Not a comp sci major eh? I guess you're a comp sci major.
  - eyelovewe 5y ago
    I was a comp sci major. Do you know what a Pointer is? Do you know what passing by reference means? Do you know what a heap allocation is vs pushing something into the stack? Do you know what code and bss segments are and what they are for? This is not about being right or wrong, I just can’t stand to watch total nonsense go unchallenged. No, you cannot write a hardware device driver in a dynamic language, which is not to preclude code generation approaches, but to point out what low level hardware programming actually consists of: manipulating memory, registers included
- jiofih 5y ago
  Anything is a “good language for that” if it meets your needs. If you can run the js VM in 128KB of RAM and have decent performance, why not? I guess you would be ok with a Lisp in a microcontroller even though it would also run a VM? Do you think Arduino would have had any success at all if you had to write C or Assembly to use it?
hootbootscoot 5y ago
1) I did not originate this "is trash" phrase, but replied to a parent comment you had rather excoriate. I said that Javascript is fine for what it was designed for: a single threaded UI event loop in a web browser. It is NOT good as a high-volume web server, for example. Http has a request and response cycle and is deliberately stateless such that all data goes out of scope and the entire thing can be deconstructed and, poof, no memory overhead nor leaks. It was designed that way, as a protocol. 2) I saw your comment below. You cannot write device drivers in the language of your choice on any of todays popular operating systems, nor on any embedded devices. Device drivers must have low level access to things like memory locations and cpu registers. Such things are not exposed to Javascript and not available. This is not even speaking about performance and garbage collection etc. Look, Javascript is someones computer program. It can be implemented in very little code: here's an example: https://github.com/cesanta/v7 https://github.com/cesanta/v7 Languages are not all equal nor do they all function in the same way, and that's not my opinion. Javascript syntax itself is one thing, and you can certainly feel free to Javascriptify some C++ libraries and make it all look a certain way for specific tasks, while managing things behind the scenes, up to a point... but there is no getting around the fact that SOMEONE and some languages are needed to implement low level systems functionality. the power of Cython or the Python C FFI is that it allows you to script/glue modular native code. You then state "C++14 may have been ratified 7 years ago but it's not the target code your build chain spits out" no, a C++ COMPILER spits out assembler code that then gets assembled and linked into an executable. The C++ or C code corresponds directly to a given set of assembler instructions which correspond directly to CPU instructions. You claim that Python programming of microcontrollers is mainstream, but this is not true nor possible. Python SCRIPTING of code modules (that cannot be written in Python) is certainly one way to assemble a system from pre-built legos. If you refer to knowing what I'm talking about as gatekeeping and egoism, might I suggest that you insist less forcefully in the correctness of incorrect things you state? we could be done with this spat in short order if YOU would refrain from speaking falsehoods. lies.untrue things. I look forward to your lisp c compiler. make sure that it's 100% lisp from the bottom up, or I'll consider you're having ceded my point. Consider that the lisp you author in has a garbage collection system that lisp cannot have written originally, nor has any semantics for the underlying memory structures of, but hey, I guess if one is committed to pretending that all languages are equal for all tasks, who am I to question ones self-identification with a given language.

by ljm 5y ago

eyelovewe 5y ago

Hey so can I write a device driver in JavaScript and is it a good language for that? How about my dma controller and python? What am I reading here. Not a comp sci major eh? Pass me something by reference in JavaScript, please

ljm 5y ago
What's your point, exactly? You can write a driver in practically any language. > Not a comp sci major eh? I guess you're a comp sci major.
- eyelovewe 5y ago
  I was a comp sci major. Do you know what a Pointer is? Do you know what passing by reference means? Do you know what a heap allocation is vs pushing something into the stack? Do you know what code and bss segments are and what they are for? This is not about being right or wrong, I just can’t stand to watch total nonsense go unchallenged. No, you cannot write a hardware device driver in a dynamic language, which is not to preclude code generation approaches, but to point out what low level hardware programming actually consists of: manipulating memory, registers included
jiofih 5y ago
Anything is a “good language for that” if it meets your needs. If you can run the js VM in 128KB of RAM and have decent performance, why not? I guess you would be ok with a Lisp in a microcontroller even though it would also run a VM? Do you think Arduino would have had any success at all if you had to write C or Assembly to use it?

hootbootscoot 5y ago

1) I did not originate this "is trash" phrase, but replied to a parent comment you had rather excoriate. I said that Javascript is fine for what it was designed for: a single threaded UI event loop in a web browser. It is NOT good as a high-volume web server, for example. Http has a request and response cycle and is deliberately stateless such that all data goes out of scope and the entire thing can be deconstructed and, poof, no memory overhead nor leaks. It was designed that way, as a protocol. 2) I saw your comment below. You cannot write device drivers in the language of your choice on any of todays popular operating systems, nor on any embedded devices. Device drivers must have low level access to things like memory locations and cpu registers. Such things are not exposed to Javascript and not available. This is not even speaking about performance and garbage collection etc. Look, Javascript is someones computer program. It can be implemented in very little code: here's an example: https://github.com/cesanta/v7 https://github.com/cesanta/v7 Languages are not all equal nor do they all function in the same way, and that's not my opinion. Javascript syntax itself is one thing, and you can certainly feel free to Javascriptify some C++ libraries and make it all look a certain way for specific tasks, while managing things behind the scenes, up to a point... but there is no getting around the fact that SOMEONE and some languages are needed to implement low level systems functionality. the power of Cython or the Python C FFI is that it allows you to script/glue modular native code. You then state "C++14 may have been ratified 7 years ago but it's not the target code your build chain spits out" no, a C++ COMPILER spits out assembler code that then gets assembled and linked into an executable. The C++ or C code corresponds directly to a given set of assembler instructions which correspond directly to CPU instructions. You claim that Python programming of microcontrollers is mainstream, but this is not true nor possible. Python SCRIPTING of code modules (that cannot be written in Python) is certainly one way to assemble a system from pre-built legos. If you refer to knowing what I'm talking about as gatekeeping and egoism, might I suggest that you insist less forcefully in the correctness of incorrect things you state? we could be done with this spat in short order if YOU would refrain from speaking falsehoods. lies.untrue things. I look forward to your lisp c compiler. make sure that it's 100% lisp from the bottom up, or I'll consider you're having ceded my point. Consider that the lisp you author in has a garbage collection system that lisp cannot have written originally, nor has any semantics for the underlying memory structures of, but hey, I guess if one is committed to pretending that all languages are equal for all tasks, who am I to question ones self-identification with a given language.