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Everyone's trying to shoehorn tech into existing frameworks because they know passing new laws is too hard. As the judge pointed out though, you can't just make

by xxpor 5y ago

Everyone's trying to shoehorn tech into existing frameworks because they know passing new laws is too hard. As the judge pointed out though, you can't just make shit up and expect to get away with it.

bilbo0s 5y ago
We really need new laws, because the judge is right, most of these tech companies are just not monopolies. Google excepted. When it comes to FAANGs, in what world does Apple or Netflix have 85%+ market share? It's a ridiculous argument. But if you create a privacy law with draconian penalties, it's easy to show that most of these companies share data. In my mind, new privacy laws are the way to go. Strong privacy laws would stop most of these companies in their tracks. How many times do activists need to be laughed out of anti-trust courtrooms before we get the message that it's a route that probably won't work?
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  Don’t forget that monopolization is not the only possible offense. Anti-competitive behavior is also an offense. Amazon, Facebook, and Google (especially Amazon and Google) have demonstrated all sorts of anti-competitive behavior. That’s different than privacy invasions, although there’s some overlap with advertising it’s not a complete overlap.
- fooker 5y ago
  > it's easy to show that most of these companies share data No, it's not. Mainly because most of these companies do not share data directly. Even GDPR doesn't really do anything much to curb the power of these giants.
- toast0 5y ago
  > When it comes to FAANGs, in what world does Apple or Netflix have 85%+ market share? It's a ridiculous argument. The bar isn't 85%+, it's significant market power, which may be 60%, and could be less depending on the specific conduct and facts. Apple has something in that range in mobile phones in the US (but not in many other countries), so there is probably a real question of law on what the market is precisely, and what % is needed to show significant market power (as well as what Apple conduct, if any, is prohibites) as well as a question of fact regarding the specific market share controlled by Apple. I dunno, maybe they have a high market share in smartwatches too. I don't think Netflix currently has significant market power, and the streaming market doesn't seem to have significant barriers to entry; everybody and their dog in the media business has launched WhateverPlus in the last few years to some success. That would be a hard case to make.
  - ChrisLomont 5y ago
    > Apple has something in that range in mobile phones in the US Apple has around 49-51% of market share, with the rest being Android. This is no where near monopoly power. https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held-by-smartphone-platforms-in-the-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held... >I dunno, maybe they have a high market share in smartwatches too. Nope, around 35% globally, similar US. https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartwatch-shipments-q1-2021/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartwatch-shipm... Neither of these is large enough to likely bring a monopoly argument. I've looked over the years at cases and what is generally needed, and none have ever went anywhere with such small numbers.
- jollybean 5y ago
  I think there is an issue with 'platform monopolies'. There are really only 2 major players for smartphone apps, and that's incredible power. It may not be so much an issue of monopoly but simple regulatory concerns over value chains.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  Good luck passing new laws in a country where: 1. the legislative bodies aren't designed to represent equally the population being governed 2. the vast majority of political spending comes from the wealthiest people & corporations 3. there is no correlation between the views of the average American and what gets passed as policy.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

by xxpor 5y ago

bilbo0s 5y ago

We really need new laws, because the judge is right, most of these tech companies are just not monopolies. Google excepted. When it comes to FAANGs, in what world does Apple or Netflix have 85%+ market share? It's a ridiculous argument. But if you create a privacy law with draconian penalties, it's easy to show that most of these companies share data. In my mind, new privacy laws are the way to go. Strong privacy laws would stop most of these companies in their tracks. How many times do activists need to be laughed out of anti-trust courtrooms before we get the message that it's a route that probably won't work?

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
Don’t forget that monopolization is not the only possible offense. Anti-competitive behavior is also an offense. Amazon, Facebook, and Google (especially Amazon and Google) have demonstrated all sorts of anti-competitive behavior. That’s different than privacy invasions, although there’s some overlap with advertising it’s not a complete overlap.
fooker 5y ago
> it's easy to show that most of these companies share data No, it's not. Mainly because most of these companies do not share data directly. Even GDPR doesn't really do anything much to curb the power of these giants.
toast0 5y ago
> When it comes to FAANGs, in what world does Apple or Netflix have 85%+ market share? It's a ridiculous argument. The bar isn't 85%+, it's significant market power, which may be 60%, and could be less depending on the specific conduct and facts. Apple has something in that range in mobile phones in the US (but not in many other countries), so there is probably a real question of law on what the market is precisely, and what % is needed to show significant market power (as well as what Apple conduct, if any, is prohibites) as well as a question of fact regarding the specific market share controlled by Apple. I dunno, maybe they have a high market share in smartwatches too. I don't think Netflix currently has significant market power, and the streaming market doesn't seem to have significant barriers to entry; everybody and their dog in the media business has launched WhateverPlus in the last few years to some success. That would be a hard case to make.
- ChrisLomont 5y ago
  > Apple has something in that range in mobile phones in the US Apple has around 49-51% of market share, with the rest being Android. This is no where near monopoly power. https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held-by-smartphone-platforms-in-the-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held... >I dunno, maybe they have a high market share in smartwatches too. Nope, around 35% globally, similar US. https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartwatch-shipments-q1-2021/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartwatch-shipm... Neither of these is large enough to likely bring a monopoly argument. I've looked over the years at cases and what is generally needed, and none have ever went anywhere with such small numbers.
jollybean 5y ago
I think there is an issue with 'platform monopolies'. There are really only 2 major players for smartphone apps, and that's incredible power. It may not be so much an issue of monopoly but simple regulatory concerns over value chains.
whimsicalism 5y ago
Good luck passing new laws in a country where: 1. the legislative bodies aren't designed to represent equally the population being governed 2. the vast majority of political spending comes from the wealthiest people & corporations 3. there is no correlation between the views of the average American and what gets passed as policy.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]