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The term “echo chamber” at this point is almost meaningless. What constitutes an echo chamber. Where is the line? If you don’t allow hate speech, is that an ec
by crazydoggers 5y ago
The term “echo chamber” at this point is almost meaningless.
What constitutes an echo chamber. Where is the line? If you don’t allow hate speech, is that an echo chamber? If you don’t allow misinformation, or lies, or conspiracy theories, is that echo chamber?
To me, avoiding those things is the basis of any positive communication.
Again, the alternative: “echo free”, all points of view are equal, actually does no one any good, because comments sections aren’t a place to share and be open to points of view. Unmoderated sites, and echo free almost always end up a place for people to harass others.
The internet is different than face to face. There are few to no consequences for bad behavior, and that includes spouting political, and religious ideology in settings and situations that no one wants it. If someone sat down at your table and started spouting some of the stuff that goes around comments, you’d be pretty upset.
So if I get to choose a table at a nice restaurant with nice courteous people, why can’t I choose the same on a website?
If I go to a science mag blog I don’t want anti science, anti vaccine, anti evolution conversations. Those are settled issues in my book.
Maybe to some people, that means I’m in an “echo chamber” but honestly to me it simply means my bar for conversations is much much higher. And if someone can’t meet it they’re not invited to my table.
And if a place of patronage allows anyone to come in and harass its customers, because “feee speech” and preventing “echo chambers” I go elsewhere.
I’ve spent to much time on HN for instance dealing with misinformation or as you put it “non truth based” and for me that means things that are not verifiable, non factual, based primarily in prejudice. I usually come to HN to read technology and science news, and have come to expect a level of discussion that includes a certain level of intelligence. However on many occasions I end up seeing comments hashing out the same old prejudiced political view points over and over. So my use of HN has dropped and will probably continue to drop. Mostly I scan comments rather than read most of them as I used to.
I’m sure at some point everyone will get tired of these echo free chambers because they are simply too draining. They lead to anger and angst when actually having to deal with other’s view points in the real world.
Echo free leads to more polarization, not less. The Facebook/Twitter era has more than proved that.
Edit: Another area I’m tired of dealing with in comments.l: moderation being called “censorship”. Censorship requires an authority that can prohibit behavior at a public level. Asking people to behave, act, or talk in specific ways is not “censorship”, especially when it’s done in a private sphere, as on a website’s comment section. You’re free to do or say things in your private space without my interference, but you don’t get to enforce that on my private space or a websites private space. Calling comment moderation “censorship” is so disconnected from the actual history of true censorship, it’s an insult to the word.
- vorpalhex 5y agoAn echo chamber is any social group that repeatedly reinforces one set of viewpoints amongst themselves. Echo chambers usually form accidentally - any dissenting voices to a narratove leave or are forced out and you end up with a single religious narrative. An open comment section is an open room. Each comment, and each commentor, is acting individually. There aren't really narratives because there's not enough cooperation to build one, if things are working well. As a recent example, consider the lab leak theory for covid. This was perfectly credible to begin with, was parroted by some bad faith actors, deemed a conspiracy theory and actually censored and removed from several sites.. and now we have really good evidence to suggest it may have been the origin of covid. In an echo chamber, you remove the truth. In an open room the truth can always exist, even if it's hidden.
- crazydoggers 5y ago> any dissenting voices to a narratove leave or are forced out and you end up with a single religious narrative. Religion has nothing to do with it. You don’t need to enforce or end up with a single “religious narrative”. For example a comment section on a science mag under an article about particle physics doesn’t need to talk about religion at all. People of all walks of faith can talk openly. Not allowing others to harass people with a religious viewpoint is the basis of freedom of religion. Your lab leak theory is a great example of this exact problem, because it’s full of misinformation, almost certainly learned from social media. Scientist don’t “rule out” or “censor” competing hypothesis. It just doesn’t work that way. If you have data that supports a lab leak, then you publish and people do further research. Only in the public social media talk did it take the form of “science and truth being censored” primarily due to the public’s poor understanding of how science functions. > In an echo chamber, you remove the truth” This just logically makes no sense. Let’s say by your definition an echo chamber forces out competing narratives. If it forces out the narrative that the earth is flat, it in no way has removed the truth. By your definition I’ve created an echo chamber that only “believes” in a non flat earth, and yet truth remains.
- vorpalhex 5y agoThe use of "religious" in my comment might be better phrased as "dogmatic".