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This argument does not help. Those same folks cannot carry around a crypto-buck either. There are plenty of mobile-only banking solutions that are widely used

This argument does not help. Those same folks cannot carry around a crypto-buck either. There are plenty of mobile-only banking solutions that are widely used in non-western worlds, and that's likely a model for emerging economies. When electronic banking comes, OP is saying that standard banking ("perfected over millenia TM") is honestly quite preferable over algorithmic contracts.

CydeWeys 5y ago
> This argument does not help. Those same folks cannot carry around a crypto-buck either I'm not a big DeFi booster, but I don't think that's true. All it takes is a mobile phone. There's some pretty compelling videos coming out of El Salvador showing just how easy it is to instantly transact Bitcoin between two people simply by scanning a QR code on the other person's phone and then sending a Lightning Network transaction. This is already reality on the ground, and seemingly more accessible than getting access to credit.
- jvanderbot 5y ago
  You'd have to ignore the rest of the comment to honestly think this is a reply to the point OP was making and I was clarifying.
- gowld 5y ago
  How is that different from M-Pesa or Venmo? The difference is that no one has shown up yet in that particular location to set those up, but someone did come set up Bitcoin infra in El Salvador. Still, the ease of spending crypto in El Salvador, great as it is, does not prove it's safe and that everyone won't get hacked and robbed.
thebean11 5y ago
> Those same folks cannot carry around a crypto-buck either. Many of them can. Smartphones have much higher adoption than credit cards in these areas.
- jvanderbot 5y ago
  > There are plenty of mobile-only banking solutions that are widely used in non-western worlds, and that's likely a model for emerging economies. When electronic banking comes, OP is saying that standard banking ("perfected over millenia TM") is honestly quite preferable over algorithmic contracts.
acka 5y ago
> This argument does not help. Those same folks cannot carry around a crypto-buck either. I'm commenting on this as well as sibling and descendant comments: There are First World countries (several in Europe) in which credit cards are both uncommon and pretty much inaccessible to the majority of the population while at the same time crypto services apps and wallets are ubiquitous. The reason why credit cards are not is because governments want to discourage excessive personal debt.
- CJefferson 5y ago
  Let's hear about the several European countries where crypto of much more popular than credit cards.
vel0city 5y ago
FWIW, traditional banking and credit processes existed over a millennia ago. The Book of Ezekiel which writes a lot about the "sin" of interest was written around 593 BC. Exodus which classically is attributed to Moses was probably actually written down around that time as well also talks about charging interest. Clearly people over 2500 years ago had concepts of loans, interest, and debt. Note: I am not a religious extremist, I have a traditional mortgage and an auto loan. https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/18-13.htm https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/18-13.htm https://biblehub.com/exodus/22-25.htm https://biblehub.com/exodus/22-25.htm
- jvanderbot 5y ago
  Exactly. This system has been polished to some definition of fairness over a long period of time. "millenia".
  - vel0city 5y ago
    Ah oops for some reason in my mind I read that as singular millennium. My bad!
    - jvanderbot 5y ago
      I thought it was very informative anyway, so thanks!

CydeWeys 5y ago

> This argument does not help. Those same folks cannot carry around a crypto-buck either I'm not a big DeFi booster, but I don't think that's true. All it takes is a mobile phone. There's some pretty compelling videos coming out of El Salvador showing just how easy it is to instantly transact Bitcoin between two people simply by scanning a QR code on the other person's phone and then sending a Lightning Network transaction. This is already reality on the ground, and seemingly more accessible than getting access to credit.

jvanderbot 5y ago
You'd have to ignore the rest of the comment to honestly think this is a reply to the point OP was making and I was clarifying.
gowld 5y ago
How is that different from M-Pesa or Venmo? The difference is that no one has shown up yet in that particular location to set those up, but someone did come set up Bitcoin infra in El Salvador. Still, the ease of spending crypto in El Salvador, great as it is, does not prove it's safe and that everyone won't get hacked and robbed.

thebean11 5y ago

> Those same folks cannot carry around a crypto-buck either. Many of them can. Smartphones have much higher adoption than credit cards in these areas.

jvanderbot 5y ago
> There are plenty of mobile-only banking solutions that are widely used in non-western worlds, and that's likely a model for emerging economies. When electronic banking comes, OP is saying that standard banking ("perfected over millenia TM") is honestly quite preferable over algorithmic contracts.

acka 5y ago

> This argument does not help. Those same folks cannot carry around a crypto-buck either. I'm commenting on this as well as sibling and descendant comments: There are First World countries (several in Europe) in which credit cards are both uncommon and pretty much inaccessible to the majority of the population while at the same time crypto services apps and wallets are ubiquitous. The reason why credit cards are not is because governments want to discourage excessive personal debt.

CJefferson 5y ago
Let's hear about the several European countries where crypto of much more popular than credit cards.

vel0city 5y ago

FWIW, traditional banking and credit processes existed over a millennia ago. The Book of Ezekiel which writes a lot about the "sin" of interest was written around 593 BC. Exodus which classically is attributed to Moses was probably actually written down around that time as well also talks about charging interest. Clearly people over 2500 years ago had concepts of loans, interest, and debt. Note: I am not a religious extremist, I have a traditional mortgage and an auto loan. https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/18-13.htm https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/18-13.htm https://biblehub.com/exodus/22-25.htm https://biblehub.com/exodus/22-25.htm

jvanderbot 5y ago
Exactly. This system has been polished to some definition of fairness over a long period of time. "millenia".
- vel0city 5y ago
  Ah oops for some reason in my mind I read that as singular millennium. My bad!
  - jvanderbot 5y ago
    I thought it was very informative anyway, so thanks!