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That’s not even close to the main flaw. The main flaw is that it incentivizes crime, human trafficking and accelerates environmental destruction. None of these

That’s not even close to the main flaw. The main flaw is that it incentivizes crime, human trafficking and accelerates environmental destruction. None of these are huge problems if you can afford a private bunker in New Zealand. It’s a major problem for ordinary citizens, especially those of poorer countries. Everything involving code has bugs. Bugs aren’t a reason not to use code. Bitcoin isn’t a problem for the very small fraction of the population that use it. Bitcoin users are super rich tech workers and finance guys, by and large. The people hurt most by Bitcoin are all the people who don’t use it. It benefits the ultra-rich at great expense to the other 99% of humanity.

twox2 5y ago
That it incentivizes human trafficking and crime is pure hyperbole. Also turns out that the barrier to entry for crypto is lower in the 3rd world than you might think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvHN0MEBoZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvHN0MEBoZo
- iNane9000 5y ago
  I believe the synagogue shooter was paid in Bitcoin. So not pure hyperbole. Edit: might have the details confused about above point, but the general thrust of things is pretty clear. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/19/neo-nazis-banked-on-bitcoin-cryptocurrency-farright-christchurch/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/19/neo-nazis-banked-on-bit...
  - twox2 5y ago
    Well in that case, nothing incentivizes more crime than USD.
    - iNane9000 5y ago
      It’s more regulated though. That’s the point is there’s some control in usd, for better and worse.
      - vimy 5y ago
        Cash is the ultimate anonymous method of payment.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        dasudasu 5y ago
        Not necessarily. Bills have serial numbers on them. They can also be marked.
        Veliladon 5y ago
        Cash is a physical thing that needs to be taken somewhere if you're using it to pay someone off or receive a payoff. That gives means to be apprehended at some point in the chain. Crypto on the other hand you just hand over the coins. The coins are sent to an exchange's wallet, mingled, then pulled out on another anonymous wallet. This is what makes it so great for ransoms.
  - sjtindell 5y ago
    Their complaint was not with your premise but the language. Rather than incentivizes perhaps facilitates.
fleddr 5y ago
From a humanitarian and economical point of view, Bitcoin doesn't hurt the poor. It allows the unbanked to finally store wealth, as a counter to a local strongly inflationary currency. Besides storing wealth, also growing wealth, as pretty much the only option they have. Unless you don't believe the narrative that Bitcoin stores/grows wealth very well, in that case...poor people can simply not use it. Perhaps you mean to say that the distribution of coins is uneven. That's true, but not a problem Bitcoin aims to solve or can solve. Bitcoin is fair, the same rules apply to everyone. If a billionaire has a 1,000 Bitcoin and I have 0.1 Bitcoin, we both win or lose based on price action equally, relatively speaking. That's as fair as it gets. With Bitcoin, having lots of coins doesn't give you any new free coins, unlike fiat money. The environmental destruction is overstated and rapidly changing as we speak. Soon the vast majority of mining happens based on renewables with a specific focus on stranded energy. And this isn't a vague promise, some 60/70% of the hashrate from China, which include most coal-based mining, is being wiped out in just a few weeks.
- varjag 5y ago
  There is approximately 0 unbanked storing wealth in Bitcoin.
  - fleddr 5y ago
    Is that so? Ever heard of the African Bitcoin community, a transnational initiative running for years now that resulted in Africa growing fastest in addresses of all continents? Or what about El Salvador, 70% unbanked, where every single citizen will get a first small BTC deposit from the government, thereby becoming banked by the millions? And what about Libya? You know, that country with a crashing currency that next blocked access to bank accounts for months, it all going up in smoke? Looked into the BTC numbers there? So tell me, were you completely unaware of this at all, or do you find these people not important enough to count as more than zero?
- viraptor 5y ago
  > With Bitcoin, having lots of coins doesn't give you any new free coins, unlike fiat money. Fiat money doesn't give your free money either. You have to invest in something - and there's plenty of fee-limited options in the cryptocurrency world as well. > And this isn't a vague promise, some 60/70% of the hashrate from China, which include most coal-based mining, is being wiped out in just a few weeks. Because the price is so low, not because they want to help the environment. At the next peak everyone will be happy to burn whatever fuel is cheaper than the payout again.
AgentME 5y ago
>accelerates environmental destruction Ethereum is working on moving to proof-of-stake within the next year, which completely removes its need for energy-intensive proof-of-work mining.
- WalterSear 5y ago
  Ethereum keeps kicking the can on this, and not for technical reasons. > “One of the biggest problems I’ve found with our project is not the technical problems, it’s problems related with people”. - Buterin https://tokenist.com/buterin-explains-why-ethereum-2-0-upgrade-wont-arrive-until-late-2022/ https://tokenist.com/buterin-explains-why-ethereum-2-0-upgra... Given that the reasons are political rather than engineering in nature, there's no way to put a timeline on them.

twox2 5y ago

That it incentivizes human trafficking and crime is pure hyperbole. Also turns out that the barrier to entry for crypto is lower in the 3rd world than you might think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvHN0MEBoZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvHN0MEBoZo

iNane9000 5y ago
I believe the synagogue shooter was paid in Bitcoin. So not pure hyperbole. Edit: might have the details confused about above point, but the general thrust of things is pretty clear. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/19/neo-nazis-banked-on-bitcoin-cryptocurrency-farright-christchurch/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/19/neo-nazis-banked-on-bit...
- twox2 5y ago
  Well in that case, nothing incentivizes more crime than USD.
  - iNane9000 5y ago
    It’s more regulated though. That’s the point is there’s some control in usd, for better and worse.
    - vimy 5y ago
      Cash is the ultimate anonymous method of payment.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - dasudasu 5y ago
        Not necessarily. Bills have serial numbers on them. They can also be marked.
      - Veliladon 5y ago
        Cash is a physical thing that needs to be taken somewhere if you're using it to pay someone off or receive a payoff. That gives means to be apprehended at some point in the chain. Crypto on the other hand you just hand over the coins. The coins are sent to an exchange's wallet, mingled, then pulled out on another anonymous wallet. This is what makes it so great for ransoms.
- sjtindell 5y ago
  Their complaint was not with your premise but the language. Rather than incentivizes perhaps facilitates.

fleddr 5y ago

From a humanitarian and economical point of view, Bitcoin doesn't hurt the poor. It allows the unbanked to finally store wealth, as a counter to a local strongly inflationary currency. Besides storing wealth, also growing wealth, as pretty much the only option they have. Unless you don't believe the narrative that Bitcoin stores/grows wealth very well, in that case...poor people can simply not use it. Perhaps you mean to say that the distribution of coins is uneven. That's true, but not a problem Bitcoin aims to solve or can solve. Bitcoin is fair, the same rules apply to everyone. If a billionaire has a 1,000 Bitcoin and I have 0.1 Bitcoin, we both win or lose based on price action equally, relatively speaking. That's as fair as it gets. With Bitcoin, having lots of coins doesn't give you any new free coins, unlike fiat money. The environmental destruction is overstated and rapidly changing as we speak. Soon the vast majority of mining happens based on renewables with a specific focus on stranded energy. And this isn't a vague promise, some 60/70% of the hashrate from China, which include most coal-based mining, is being wiped out in just a few weeks.

varjag 5y ago
There is approximately 0 unbanked storing wealth in Bitcoin.
- fleddr 5y ago
  Is that so? Ever heard of the African Bitcoin community, a transnational initiative running for years now that resulted in Africa growing fastest in addresses of all continents? Or what about El Salvador, 70% unbanked, where every single citizen will get a first small BTC deposit from the government, thereby becoming banked by the millions? And what about Libya? You know, that country with a crashing currency that next blocked access to bank accounts for months, it all going up in smoke? Looked into the BTC numbers there? So tell me, were you completely unaware of this at all, or do you find these people not important enough to count as more than zero?
viraptor 5y ago
> With Bitcoin, having lots of coins doesn't give you any new free coins, unlike fiat money. Fiat money doesn't give your free money either. You have to invest in something - and there's plenty of fee-limited options in the cryptocurrency world as well. > And this isn't a vague promise, some 60/70% of the hashrate from China, which include most coal-based mining, is being wiped out in just a few weeks. Because the price is so low, not because they want to help the environment. At the next peak everyone will be happy to burn whatever fuel is cheaper than the payout again.

AgentME 5y ago

>accelerates environmental destruction Ethereum is working on moving to proof-of-stake within the next year, which completely removes its need for energy-intensive proof-of-work mining.

WalterSear 5y ago
Ethereum keeps kicking the can on this, and not for technical reasons. > “One of the biggest problems I’ve found with our project is not the technical problems, it’s problems related with people”. - Buterin https://tokenist.com/buterin-explains-why-ethereum-2-0-upgrade-wont-arrive-until-late-2022/ https://tokenist.com/buterin-explains-why-ethereum-2-0-upgra... Given that the reasons are political rather than engineering in nature, there's no way to put a timeline on them.