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There's a solution I put out there for my non-technical friends. I just tell them to buy two Android devices. Obviously with iOS this won't work, but then agai

by sounds 5y ago

There's a solution I put out there for my non-technical friends. I just tell them to buy two Android devices. Obviously with iOS this won't work, but then again, iOS devices aren't cheap enough for this to be a reasonable approach anyway. Device #1: Buy the cheapest device you can. I give my friends specific recommendations. Invent a new burner gmail account for it. Install whatever you want off the Play Store - obviously, use all the normal caution to avoid any malware. Never put any personal info on it, so never put a SIM card in it, just connect over wifi. Device #2: Buy a nice Android device. Never sign in. Put the SIM card in this one. Side load apps and update them by extracting the APK from device #1. Export your contacts from Google and load them manually (and save a backup). Access your email using IMAP from a third party app. Backup your photos using a third party app. The point is _not_ to use Google Pay, Google Assistant, and Google Cloud. • Google Maps works without being signed in • Google Play Store will update Google Maps (and the default apps on the device) without being signed in, but it does use dark patterns to try to get you to sign in • Android OS updates will work without being signed in It is more work, no question. It works for me. Your mileage may vary. Disclaimer that I'm posting in kind of a hurry, so I'll just admit the details here probably don't make sense.

john2010 5y ago
+1 for your ideas!
bruce343434 5y ago
Your cause is noble but this is just way too much effort.
- sounds 5y ago
  It's the same amount of effort for a desktop PC and desktop OS: apps have to do their own updating because I installed them myself. The sibling poster suggested using an alternative app store, which seems like a good way to make this less onerous, with the downside of more malware... I want the same benefit as the desktop PC, specifically that I own it, control it, and don't have to sign in to use it.
encryptluks2 5y ago
That is hardly a solution. You also act like by "inventing" a burner account that Google has no clue who you are, but that is simply not the case. If so their service would be overrun with spammers. Generally they require that you also verify a real phone number to setup an account. Also, once you've done all this you can download APKs from Google Play Store without needing a burner phone. They've had extensions that do this for some time. Might as well just do it from the computer and or use an alternative app store. If you really don't want someone to sign in to Google services, then there are ROMs made specifically for that. Have them use CardDav and CalDav. Use email with IMAP, etc. The route you've chose seems way too convoluted for no purpose other than the illusion that you're somehow unidentifiable.
- sounds 5y ago
  We're solving different problems. By purchasing a burner phone, I am definitely traceable by law enforcement. You want to be untraceable after a crime - I'm not solving that problem. Your other suggestions are fine ideas, there's not a specific right or wrong way to do it.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    > By purchasing a burner phone, I am definitely traceable by law enforcement Well, it really depends on how you buy it and where you use it. Yes, they can locate your phone based on triangulation. However, you can buy a prepaid burner phone outside of your area and then use it to create a Google account and then make sure you are using a VPN when connecting from a residential location. However, I don't really see the use in buying a burner phone just to download APKs from. You can do the same without one. I agree, that it does work to accomplish what you mentioned but I was just trying to explain that there is a much easier route without the additional burden.
    - sounds 5y ago
      Then you're not one of those people I would recommend it to. You seem to have missed the biggest part of why I recommend this to some people - never, ever put a SIM in the burner phone. It's just for that burner gmail address you use to get into the Google Walled Garden.
metalliqaz 5y ago
why have a burner phone at all if you're going to do this? just get the APKs from the web
babypuncher 5y ago
This is way too paranoid of an approach for 99% of users.
cosmojg 5y ago
Why not just get a nice phone with good support for unlocking/rooting and run LineageOS instead? Sent from my OnePlus 6T running LineageOS.
- sounds 5y ago
  An open source replacement for Android just can't put in the same level of effort as the entire Android ecosystem does, so LineageOS is at a fundamental disadvantage. If I am going to go with a different OS than Android, I'll get a Librem so I'm paying the company that made the hardware AND software, with incentives aligned for me to be a supported, acknowledged user.
  - f1refly 5y ago
    A free software android distribution doesn't need to put in the same level of effort as the entire android ecosystem does, considering it profits off the entire android ecosystem and probably isn't even in the same business as most distributors who allocate considerable resources towards making their devices as user hostile as possible. Therefore, lineageos has a fundamental advantage over all other vendors, as they can create a much better experience with a fraction of their competitors workforce and money. I don't know when you last layed your eyes on a "competitive" android os spinoff, but I'm honestly shaken every time I see what other people have to endure on their mobile computers. It's a disgrace.

by sounds 5y ago

john2010 5y ago

+1 for your ideas!

bruce343434 5y ago

Your cause is noble but this is just way too much effort.

sounds 5y ago
It's the same amount of effort for a desktop PC and desktop OS: apps have to do their own updating because I installed them myself. The sibling poster suggested using an alternative app store, which seems like a good way to make this less onerous, with the downside of more malware... I want the same benefit as the desktop PC, specifically that I own it, control it, and don't have to sign in to use it.

encryptluks2 5y ago

That is hardly a solution. You also act like by "inventing" a burner account that Google has no clue who you are, but that is simply not the case. If so their service would be overrun with spammers. Generally they require that you also verify a real phone number to setup an account. Also, once you've done all this you can download APKs from Google Play Store without needing a burner phone. They've had extensions that do this for some time. Might as well just do it from the computer and or use an alternative app store. If you really don't want someone to sign in to Google services, then there are ROMs made specifically for that. Have them use CardDav and CalDav. Use email with IMAP, etc. The route you've chose seems way too convoluted for no purpose other than the illusion that you're somehow unidentifiable.

sounds 5y ago
We're solving different problems. By purchasing a burner phone, I am definitely traceable by law enforcement. You want to be untraceable after a crime - I'm not solving that problem. Your other suggestions are fine ideas, there's not a specific right or wrong way to do it.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  > By purchasing a burner phone, I am definitely traceable by law enforcement Well, it really depends on how you buy it and where you use it. Yes, they can locate your phone based on triangulation. However, you can buy a prepaid burner phone outside of your area and then use it to create a Google account and then make sure you are using a VPN when connecting from a residential location. However, I don't really see the use in buying a burner phone just to download APKs from. You can do the same without one. I agree, that it does work to accomplish what you mentioned but I was just trying to explain that there is a much easier route without the additional burden.
  - sounds 5y ago
    Then you're not one of those people I would recommend it to. You seem to have missed the biggest part of why I recommend this to some people - never, ever put a SIM in the burner phone. It's just for that burner gmail address you use to get into the Google Walled Garden.

metalliqaz 5y ago

why have a burner phone at all if you're going to do this? just get the APKs from the web

babypuncher 5y ago

This is way too paranoid of an approach for 99% of users.

cosmojg 5y ago

Why not just get a nice phone with good support for unlocking/rooting and run LineageOS instead? Sent from my OnePlus 6T running LineageOS.

sounds 5y ago
An open source replacement for Android just can't put in the same level of effort as the entire Android ecosystem does, so LineageOS is at a fundamental disadvantage. If I am going to go with a different OS than Android, I'll get a Librem so I'm paying the company that made the hardware AND software, with incentives aligned for me to be a supported, acknowledged user.
- f1refly 5y ago
  A free software android distribution doesn't need to put in the same level of effort as the entire android ecosystem does, considering it profits off the entire android ecosystem and probably isn't even in the same business as most distributors who allocate considerable resources towards making their devices as user hostile as possible. Therefore, lineageos has a fundamental advantage over all other vendors, as they can create a much better experience with a fraction of their competitors workforce and money. I don't know when you last layed your eyes on a "competitive" android os spinoff, but I'm honestly shaken every time I see what other people have to endure on their mobile computers. It's a disgrace.