3 ms·

Politically I don't think any significant action will be taken fast enough or even at all. Even if one country does take significant action, there is no way th

Politically I don't think any significant action will be taken fast enough or even at all. Even if one country does take significant action, there is no way the entire world is going to get on board unless there is strong financial incentive. Instead our only hope is an engineered solution - which might not even be reversing it at this point but more how to survive and thrive in a different world.

karpierz 5y ago
Your efficiency gains will just get eaten up by Jevon's Paradox[1] unless accompanied by a political solution. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
- jeff303 5y ago
  Perhaps parent commenter is referring to carbon capture or something similar?
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  Jevons paradox isn’t a physical law. It’s an observation. If your technical solution involves making coal or oil more valuable by increasing the amount of work it can do (or reducing the cost to extract it), that is Jevons Paradox. If it’s wholesale replacing it with something else, then Jevons Paradox need not apply.
- epistasis 5y ago
  It's really clear that Jevon's paradox does not currently apply to decarbonizatiom and increased energy availability. As our GDP is rising, energy usage is going down. Our efficiency is increasing, with better gas mileage, more efficient lighting, etc, and total energy use is going down. There are some areas where Jevons paradox applies, but it's where the majority of use of something is gated by cost. Most of our energy consumption is not limited by that these days, in that most people aren't keeping the house colder at winter than they'd like it to save money, or driving less than they'd like because of gas costs. Where Jevons paradox causes lots of problems is with road building. Because by changing the fundamental geography, you're changing the demand side of the equation a ton.
- Zababa 5y ago
  White certificates are a good example of a political solution that directly stops this paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_certificates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_certificates
- agumonkey 5y ago
  Unless culture marks overconsumption as bad
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
twobitshifter 5y ago
We are the proverbial boiling frog. Coronavirus has shown us that the world can act swiftly and forcefully to alter behaviors when we know there is a threat out there even if it is invisible. Climate change being gradual, diffuse , occasional and unpredictable in its immediate effects means that it’s easy to push off to tomorrow. If every beach condo tower around the world started falling to the ground at a predictable pace and we had a condo destruction tracker at the top of the news every night - we might get somewhere. But the way it is now it seems like an explainable one off situation.
yongjik 5y ago
IMHO, if one country does take significant action, the country now has strong incentive to advocate the same change for neighbors (because otherwise it's just losing out on competition), and these neighboring countries' activists and politicians can now point to the first country as an example. It's already happening in limited scale: for example, more and more countries plan to ban ICE vehicles altogether. The more countries join the idea, the more "normalized" the idea becomes, which will force vehicle makers to take notes (because what's the point of designing vehicles if you can't sell them to most consumers), at which point the "battle" is won. So, "one country taking initiative", while not being enough in itself, is a perfectly viable way of starting political change.

karpierz 5y ago

Your efficiency gains will just get eaten up by Jevon's Paradox[1] unless accompanied by a political solution. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

jeff303 5y ago
Perhaps parent commenter is referring to carbon capture or something similar?
Robotbeat 5y ago
Jevons paradox isn’t a physical law. It’s an observation. If your technical solution involves making coal or oil more valuable by increasing the amount of work it can do (or reducing the cost to extract it), that is Jevons Paradox. If it’s wholesale replacing it with something else, then Jevons Paradox need not apply.
epistasis 5y ago
It's really clear that Jevon's paradox does not currently apply to decarbonizatiom and increased energy availability. As our GDP is rising, energy usage is going down. Our efficiency is increasing, with better gas mileage, more efficient lighting, etc, and total energy use is going down. There are some areas where Jevons paradox applies, but it's where the majority of use of something is gated by cost. Most of our energy consumption is not limited by that these days, in that most people aren't keeping the house colder at winter than they'd like it to save money, or driving less than they'd like because of gas costs. Where Jevons paradox causes lots of problems is with road building. Because by changing the fundamental geography, you're changing the demand side of the equation a ton.
Zababa 5y ago
White certificates are a good example of a political solution that directly stops this paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_certificates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_certificates
agumonkey 5y ago
Unless culture marks overconsumption as bad

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

twobitshifter 5y ago

We are the proverbial boiling frog. Coronavirus has shown us that the world can act swiftly and forcefully to alter behaviors when we know there is a threat out there even if it is invisible. Climate change being gradual, diffuse , occasional and unpredictable in its immediate effects means that it’s easy to push off to tomorrow. If every beach condo tower around the world started falling to the ground at a predictable pace and we had a condo destruction tracker at the top of the news every night - we might get somewhere. But the way it is now it seems like an explainable one off situation.

yongjik 5y ago

IMHO, if one country does take significant action, the country now has strong incentive to advocate the same change for neighbors (because otherwise it's just losing out on competition), and these neighboring countries' activists and politicians can now point to the first country as an example. It's already happening in limited scale: for example, more and more countries plan to ban ICE vehicles altogether. The more countries join the idea, the more "normalized" the idea becomes, which will force vehicle makers to take notes (because what's the point of designing vehicles if you can't sell them to most consumers), at which point the "battle" is won. So, "one country taking initiative", while not being enough in itself, is a perfectly viable way of starting political change.