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I'm over in Mac-land so a bit unclear on the state of things, but it seems like the problem must be marketing by now, right? I can't think of any use cases for

I'm over in Mac-land so a bit unclear on the state of things, but it seems like the problem must be marketing by now, right? I can't think of any use cases for mainstream users where Windows is a requirement. Graphic designers, digital art types, and musicians are all fringe and mostly on Mac anyway. PC gamers are a fringe crowd. Practically all productivity software has migrated to the cloud. Desktop Linux usability seemed to meet the standard of Windows XP and Windows 7 years ago. Is the problem really that you still have to grapple with graphics drivers on the CLI? Or is it just that Best Buy and CostCo still don't have motivation to put shiny Linux machines on the shelves? and yeah I know all about the various shady Gates/Ballmer-era OEM deals… I just can't believe that not one OEM has snapped by now.

chopin 5y ago
When I buy a computer, Windows 10 is installed as default. You have to go out of your way to get a computer which hasn't. I think it's as easy as that. I've setup Linux on all machines I own or maintain, for all users including my wife. The frequency of hickups is not higher than it was with Windows and It's easy to roll back to a known good configuration, much easier than with Windows. I never looked back. Edited to add: The last machine I bought was a Purism laptop. The first machine which did not have Windows pre-installed.
kitsunesoba 5y ago
Linux simply has too many rough edges still exposed to appeal to a lot of less technical users. Even in the best case scenario (super standard desktop with hardware well supported by FOSS drivers), there’s always some odd thing that requires one to pull out the terminal, usually because UI functionality was insufficient or failed to work as expected. That does not bother me or probably most of us on HN much, but for most people it’s like periodically needing to muck around under the hood of their car. It’s too much, they just want to drive and take the vehicle in to get oil and brake changes every once in a fairly long while. Anything more is tedious overhead. The situation with proprietary drivers still kinda stinks too. The distros I’ve seen handle it best are Ubuntu with the proprietary drivers control panel and pop!_OS which just sidesteps the issue altogether for Nvidia hardware by shipping an ISO with non-free Nvidia drivers included, but the rest just leave you with a package manager, terminal, and whatever you can scrounge up on the internet. Yeah it’s technically the responsibility of Nvidia, etc to fix that, but it’s negatively impacting adoption nonetheless.
- caeril 5y ago
  > has too many rough edges still exposed to appeal to a lot of less technical users This is ridiculous. Not only does Ubuntu LTS work just fine for my incredibly non-technical wife and children, but my wife prefers it to Mac OS. Linux with a basic Gnome desktop has been perfectly usable for well over a DECADE now for non-technical users. This particular bit of FUD has been wildly inaccurate at least since Fedora Core 3.
anthk 5y ago
>Is the problem really that you still have to grapple with graphics drivers on the CLI? Bullshit on distros like Solus OS.
alasdair_ 5y ago
>PC gamers are a fringe crowd. Sure, if 1.5 Billion people are a "fringe crowd" https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/314009-3-billion-people-worldwide-are-gamers-and-nearly-half-play-on-pcs https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/314009-3-billion-people-w...
- Eric_WVGG 5y ago
  Wow, never seen those figures before… well forgive my American myopia. I would still describe American PC gamers as “fringe”, but I had thought the Asian market was similarly leaning toward console players, clearly that is incorrect.

chopin 5y ago

When I buy a computer, Windows 10 is installed as default. You have to go out of your way to get a computer which hasn't. I think it's as easy as that. I've setup Linux on all machines I own or maintain, for all users including my wife. The frequency of hickups is not higher than it was with Windows and It's easy to roll back to a known good configuration, much easier than with Windows. I never looked back. Edited to add: The last machine I bought was a Purism laptop. The first machine which did not have Windows pre-installed.

kitsunesoba 5y ago

Linux simply has too many rough edges still exposed to appeal to a lot of less technical users. Even in the best case scenario (super standard desktop with hardware well supported by FOSS drivers), there’s always some odd thing that requires one to pull out the terminal, usually because UI functionality was insufficient or failed to work as expected. That does not bother me or probably most of us on HN much, but for most people it’s like periodically needing to muck around under the hood of their car. It’s too much, they just want to drive and take the vehicle in to get oil and brake changes every once in a fairly long while. Anything more is tedious overhead. The situation with proprietary drivers still kinda stinks too. The distros I’ve seen handle it best are Ubuntu with the proprietary drivers control panel and pop!_OS which just sidesteps the issue altogether for Nvidia hardware by shipping an ISO with non-free Nvidia drivers included, but the rest just leave you with a package manager, terminal, and whatever you can scrounge up on the internet. Yeah it’s technically the responsibility of Nvidia, etc to fix that, but it’s negatively impacting adoption nonetheless.

caeril 5y ago
> has too many rough edges still exposed to appeal to a lot of less technical users This is ridiculous. Not only does Ubuntu LTS work just fine for my incredibly non-technical wife and children, but my wife prefers it to Mac OS. Linux with a basic Gnome desktop has been perfectly usable for well over a DECADE now for non-technical users. This particular bit of FUD has been wildly inaccurate at least since Fedora Core 3.

anthk 5y ago

>Is the problem really that you still have to grapple with graphics drivers on the CLI? Bullshit on distros like Solus OS.

alasdair_ 5y ago

>PC gamers are a fringe crowd. Sure, if 1.5 Billion people are a "fringe crowd" https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/314009-3-billion-people-worldwide-are-gamers-and-nearly-half-play-on-pcs https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/314009-3-billion-people-w...

Eric_WVGG 5y ago
Wow, never seen those figures before… well forgive my American myopia. I would still describe American PC gamers as “fringe”, but I had thought the Asian market was similarly leaning toward console players, clearly that is incorrect.