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....actually you do not need an iCloud account to use a mac or iPhone, but on iPhone you do need an iCloud account to download apps. On mac you can setup and us

....actually you do not need an iCloud account to use a mac or iPhone, but on iPhone you do need an iCloud account to download apps. On mac you can setup and use the machine entirely offline forever. The same irony goes for the Windows 11 CPU support, the next version of macOS supports machines twice as old as Windows 11 supports. Microsoft embraces alt payment methods in the store and supports regulation, Apple doesn't and is the monopoly. The world is upside down in such strange ways in 2021.

toyg 5y ago
> you do not need an iCloud account to use a mac or iPhone ... but you are similarly prompted and dark-patterned to create one anyway. It is just marginally easier to skip the choice, if you don't mind being nagged or diving into the buried option you need to switch it all off. And without an account, loads of features like family Screen Time don't even work. Apple paved the way, while MS was being cautious because of the browser-related legal challenges. They made all this socially acceptable, so at one point the guys in Redmond rightly went "why can't we do the same?" and here we are.
- gentleman11 5y ago
  They aren’t afraid of those legal issues any more. They basically say Firefox is malware if you try to install it and you have to click that you are okay with insecure software to continue
- agloeregrets 5y ago
  Microsoft started the majority of this back in Windows 8 and made it a dark pattern to skip in 10, this isn't really an Apple thing. The whole industry moved this way. Windows 11 breaks the bar here and requires internet now. It's not a dark pattern or skippable like you are implying here and it's not on remotely the same level as Apple or Google. Microsoft clearly is being the worst of anyone here.
  - toyg 5y ago
    Windows 8 was a reaction to the iPhone wave in everything, from the UI to this. > it's not on remotely the same level as Apple or Google Oh, it absolutely is. "The healthier one is a leper", as they (used to) say where I'm from .

toyg 5y ago

> you do not need an iCloud account to use a mac or iPhone ... but you are similarly prompted and dark-patterned to create one anyway. It is just marginally easier to skip the choice, if you don't mind being nagged or diving into the buried option you need to switch it all off. And without an account, loads of features like family Screen Time don't even work. Apple paved the way, while MS was being cautious because of the browser-related legal challenges. They made all this socially acceptable, so at one point the guys in Redmond rightly went "why can't we do the same?" and here we are.

gentleman11 5y ago
They aren’t afraid of those legal issues any more. They basically say Firefox is malware if you try to install it and you have to click that you are okay with insecure software to continue
agloeregrets 5y ago
Microsoft started the majority of this back in Windows 8 and made it a dark pattern to skip in 10, this isn't really an Apple thing. The whole industry moved this way. Windows 11 breaks the bar here and requires internet now. It's not a dark pattern or skippable like you are implying here and it's not on remotely the same level as Apple or Google. Microsoft clearly is being the worst of anyone here.
- toyg 5y ago
  Windows 8 was a reaction to the iPhone wave in everything, from the UI to this. > it's not on remotely the same level as Apple or Google Oh, it absolutely is. "The healthier one is a leper", as they (used to) say where I'm from .