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Of course it’s different. You need to know how to make solar panels so that it will work on Mars. It’s different than those you would need for the moon. It woul

Of course it’s different. You need to know how to make solar panels so that it will work on Mars. It’s different than those you would need for the moon. It would have to work through the dust storms. The equipment would need to be rated differently. How the signal is sent from the rover to the orbiter would be different, etc. There’s a lot of knowledge that you would need to build up about Mars and having probes on Mars and the logistics of sending data to and from Earth via orbiter that you would need before jumping all the way to sending a large expensive rover to Mars. That’s interesting about NASA not being allowed to share data. I really wonder how China was able to leap to sending a rover without lots of investment in understanding everything else about it.

icegreentea2 5y ago
Many of the design outputs of the NASA rover programs are public domain. For example, the peak solar panel rating of the MER (Opportunity and Spirit) is published, the size of the panels are known (or can easily by estimated), the power needed to drive the rovers around is published, the weight of the rover is published, the size of wheels can be easily estimated (or is published). The logistics of sending data back can be reasonably considered to be a challenge that could be solved on the first try. The first space probe that NASA managed to actually get to Mars (Mariner) worked. The first landers that NASA managed to get to Mars (Viking) worked.
unity1001 5y ago
> I really wonder how China was able to leap to sending a rover without lots of investment in understanding everything else about it. Continent-wide public education churning out legions after legions of STEM graduates?
- cscurmudgeon 5y ago
  The best of which promptly move to US and Europe.
  - onethought 5y ago
    I think you severely underestimate the quantity of top scoring STEM graduates. What you really mean is “the richest/privileged move to US and Europe”
- sidlls 5y ago
  The proportion of Chinese stem graduates who aren’t simply copying their way around and are gifted enough to run these programs is likely about the same as the proportion anywhere else. Chinese people are no more or less intelligent than anyone else.
  - ptr2voidStar 5y ago
    Shocking that you have to state this fact. Is this HN or YouTube? SMDH
    - sidlls 5y ago
      On HN it seems like there is a huge anti-US/sinophile presence which seeks to elevate any achievement, no matter how minor or retread, as if it were some major accomplishment done in spite of insurmountable purposeful opposition by the evil colonial empire building westerners. When even the slightest accomplishment is so outlandishly propagandized it becomes hard to view actual ones in their proper light. Especially when it’s unclear whether they’re “standing on shoulders” or simply trying to pass the shoulders off as their own.
  - wiz21c 5y ago
    In my country, and I guess otherd in western Europe, we often fail to appreciate the sheer power of those "other" countries such as Russia or China. Many are still stuck in the colonialist vision of things where Europe and US were vastly superior. This is not true anymore. And as you point out, intelligence is uniformly distributed.
    - failuser 5y ago
      Days when Russia could send problems to Mars are long over, so with regards to Russia reality ironically corrected itself to match the US expectations.
      - wiz21c 5y ago
        Well, I must admit picking Russia was a bit far fetched :-) However, I have the feeling Russia is still a strong player on the geopolitical level (see Syria, Ukraine -- although I'm sure civilian casualties say otherwise).
throwaway4good 5y ago
Don't make the mistake thinking that this happened without "lots of investment". The Chinese space program is massive and has been running for decades.
Teever 5y ago
> You need to know how to make solar panels so that it will work on Mars. It’s different than those you would need for the moon. Can you elaborate on this?
- plank_time 5y ago
  Does the Martian atmosphere filter out certain frequencies of light? And how does it compare against the frequencies that their rover solar panel is sensitive to? Or is their atmosphere thin enough such that UV light gets through? Can they make use of that? Lots of questions just about their solar panels and what would be the most effective chemicals to make their solar panels out of to maximize their output. They have no probes previously on the surface of Mars. How would they know how to make their solar panels to be the most efficient without data? Did they just guess? Did NASA share that information? Or is that secret information that NASA kept quiet and Chinese spies stole that information? All three possibilities could have occurred but I really doubt that China would just guess and then spend billions of dollars to send a probe without knowing if it would work.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    To be clear, the composition of the Martian atmosphere is not a secret. And people had a fairly good idea before going there, obviously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Mars#History_of_atmospheric_observations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Mars#History_of_...
    - plank_time 5y ago
      Composition of the atmosphere and knowing what frequencies of light make it all the way to the ground is different. There’s so much dust in the air that it might reflect different frequencies depending on where you are. That’s why having a cheaper probe on the ground that measures this makes it a better chance of getting it right for more expensive probes. But they don’t have those initial probes. My point is China has no probes on Mars unless they have secret ones. They can GUESS what would be best optional frequencies to tune their solar panels for but my point is that they are spending billions of dollars. Do they really want to rely on data they didn’t retrieve themselves? That seems like an odd thing to take a risk on. Better to either work together with nasa since they have the expertise. Hence I’m curious what the relationship is between China and nasa for this project and if it was an open one or if they got the data some other way.

icegreentea2 5y ago

Many of the design outputs of the NASA rover programs are public domain. For example, the peak solar panel rating of the MER (Opportunity and Spirit) is published, the size of the panels are known (or can easily by estimated), the power needed to drive the rovers around is published, the weight of the rover is published, the size of wheels can be easily estimated (or is published). The logistics of sending data back can be reasonably considered to be a challenge that could be solved on the first try. The first space probe that NASA managed to actually get to Mars (Mariner) worked. The first landers that NASA managed to get to Mars (Viking) worked.

unity1001 5y ago

> I really wonder how China was able to leap to sending a rover without lots of investment in understanding everything else about it. Continent-wide public education churning out legions after legions of STEM graduates?

cscurmudgeon 5y ago
The best of which promptly move to US and Europe.
- onethought 5y ago
  I think you severely underestimate the quantity of top scoring STEM graduates. What you really mean is “the richest/privileged move to US and Europe”
sidlls 5y ago
The proportion of Chinese stem graduates who aren’t simply copying their way around and are gifted enough to run these programs is likely about the same as the proportion anywhere else. Chinese people are no more or less intelligent than anyone else.
- ptr2voidStar 5y ago
  Shocking that you have to state this fact. Is this HN or YouTube? SMDH
  - sidlls 5y ago
    On HN it seems like there is a huge anti-US/sinophile presence which seeks to elevate any achievement, no matter how minor or retread, as if it were some major accomplishment done in spite of insurmountable purposeful opposition by the evil colonial empire building westerners. When even the slightest accomplishment is so outlandishly propagandized it becomes hard to view actual ones in their proper light. Especially when it’s unclear whether they’re “standing on shoulders” or simply trying to pass the shoulders off as their own.
- wiz21c 5y ago
  In my country, and I guess otherd in western Europe, we often fail to appreciate the sheer power of those "other" countries such as Russia or China. Many are still stuck in the colonialist vision of things where Europe and US were vastly superior. This is not true anymore. And as you point out, intelligence is uniformly distributed.
  - failuser 5y ago
    Days when Russia could send problems to Mars are long over, so with regards to Russia reality ironically corrected itself to match the US expectations.
    - wiz21c 5y ago
      Well, I must admit picking Russia was a bit far fetched :-) However, I have the feeling Russia is still a strong player on the geopolitical level (see Syria, Ukraine -- although I'm sure civilian casualties say otherwise).

throwaway4good 5y ago

Don't make the mistake thinking that this happened without "lots of investment". The Chinese space program is massive and has been running for decades.

Teever 5y ago

> You need to know how to make solar panels so that it will work on Mars. It’s different than those you would need for the moon. Can you elaborate on this?

plank_time 5y ago
Does the Martian atmosphere filter out certain frequencies of light? And how does it compare against the frequencies that their rover solar panel is sensitive to? Or is their atmosphere thin enough such that UV light gets through? Can they make use of that? Lots of questions just about their solar panels and what would be the most effective chemicals to make their solar panels out of to maximize their output. They have no probes previously on the surface of Mars. How would they know how to make their solar panels to be the most efficient without data? Did they just guess? Did NASA share that information? Or is that secret information that NASA kept quiet and Chinese spies stole that information? All three possibilities could have occurred but I really doubt that China would just guess and then spend billions of dollars to send a probe without knowing if it would work.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  To be clear, the composition of the Martian atmosphere is not a secret. And people had a fairly good idea before going there, obviously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Mars#History_of_atmospheric_observations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Mars#History_of_...
  - plank_time 5y ago
    Composition of the atmosphere and knowing what frequencies of light make it all the way to the ground is different. There’s so much dust in the air that it might reflect different frequencies depending on where you are. That’s why having a cheaper probe on the ground that measures this makes it a better chance of getting it right for more expensive probes. But they don’t have those initial probes. My point is China has no probes on Mars unless they have secret ones. They can GUESS what would be best optional frequencies to tune their solar panels for but my point is that they are spending billions of dollars. Do they really want to rely on data they didn’t retrieve themselves? That seems like an odd thing to take a risk on. Better to either work together with nasa since they have the expertise. Hence I’m curious what the relationship is between China and nasa for this project and if it was an open one or if they got the data some other way.