7 ms·

Windows isn't anywhere near as ubiquitous as it used to be. Once W11 requires a MS login I'm not installing it for any friends or family - they're getting on t

Windows isn't anywhere near as ubiquitous as it used to be. Once W11 requires a MS login I'm not installing it for any friends or family - they're getting on the Linux express or working it out themselves. I won't be party to this BS, this isn't the future I wanted to facilitate.

arp242 5y ago
Both Android and iOS require an account to be practically useful for most people, and have for years. Microsoft is "only" following suit, and I'm afraid that a bunch of hackers here aren't enough to stop the tide :-/
- Brakenshire 5y ago
  People here can keep an alternative alive.
- danhor 5y ago
  At least on Android, they're not really hiding the option of not using an account as opposed to what microsoft is doing. Probably because most people will use one anyway for the play store.
- sounds 5y ago
  There's a solution I put out there for my non-technical friends. I just tell them to buy two Android devices. Obviously with iOS this won't work, but then again, iOS devices aren't cheap enough for this to be a reasonable approach anyway. Device #1: Buy the cheapest device you can. I give my friends specific recommendations. Invent a new burner gmail account for it. Install whatever you want off the Play Store - obviously, use all the normal caution to avoid any malware. Never put any personal info on it, so never put a SIM card in it, just connect over wifi. Device #2: Buy a nice Android device. Never sign in. Put the SIM card in this one. Side load apps and update them by extracting the APK from device #1. Export your contacts from Google and load them manually (and save a backup). Access your email using IMAP from a third party app. Backup your photos using a third party app. The point is _not_ to use Google Pay, Google Assistant, and Google Cloud. • Google Maps works without being signed in • Google Play Store will update Google Maps (and the default apps on the device) without being signed in, but it does use dark patterns to try to get you to sign in • Android OS updates will work without being signed in It is more work, no question. It works for me. Your mileage may vary. Disclaimer that I'm posting in kind of a hurry, so I'll just admit the details here probably don't make sense.
  - john2010 5y ago
    +1 for your ideas!
  - bruce343434 5y ago
    Your cause is noble but this is just way too much effort.
    - sounds 5y ago
      It's the same amount of effort for a desktop PC and desktop OS: apps have to do their own updating because I installed them myself. The sibling poster suggested using an alternative app store, which seems like a good way to make this less onerous, with the downside of more malware... I want the same benefit as the desktop PC, specifically that I own it, control it, and don't have to sign in to use it.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    That is hardly a solution. You also act like by "inventing" a burner account that Google has no clue who you are, but that is simply not the case. If so their service would be overrun with spammers. Generally they require that you also verify a real phone number to setup an account. Also, once you've done all this you can download APKs from Google Play Store without needing a burner phone. They've had extensions that do this for some time. Might as well just do it from the computer and or use an alternative app store. If you really don't want someone to sign in to Google services, then there are ROMs made specifically for that. Have them use CardDav and CalDav. Use email with IMAP, etc. The route you've chose seems way too convoluted for no purpose other than the illusion that you're somehow unidentifiable.
    - sounds 5y ago
      We're solving different problems. By purchasing a burner phone, I am definitely traceable by law enforcement. You want to be untraceable after a crime - I'm not solving that problem. Your other suggestions are fine ideas, there's not a specific right or wrong way to do it.

arp242 5y ago

Both Android and iOS require an account to be practically useful for most people, and have for years. Microsoft is "only" following suit, and I'm afraid that a bunch of hackers here aren't enough to stop the tide :-/

Brakenshire 5y ago
People here can keep an alternative alive.
danhor 5y ago
At least on Android, they're not really hiding the option of not using an account as opposed to what microsoft is doing. Probably because most people will use one anyway for the play store.
sounds 5y ago
There's a solution I put out there for my non-technical friends. I just tell them to buy two Android devices. Obviously with iOS this won't work, but then again, iOS devices aren't cheap enough for this to be a reasonable approach anyway. Device #1: Buy the cheapest device you can. I give my friends specific recommendations. Invent a new burner gmail account for it. Install whatever you want off the Play Store - obviously, use all the normal caution to avoid any malware. Never put any personal info on it, so never put a SIM card in it, just connect over wifi. Device #2: Buy a nice Android device. Never sign in. Put the SIM card in this one. Side load apps and update them by extracting the APK from device #1. Export your contacts from Google and load them manually (and save a backup). Access your email using IMAP from a third party app. Backup your photos using a third party app. The point is _not_ to use Google Pay, Google Assistant, and Google Cloud. • Google Maps works without being signed in • Google Play Store will update Google Maps (and the default apps on the device) without being signed in, but it does use dark patterns to try to get you to sign in • Android OS updates will work without being signed in It is more work, no question. It works for me. Your mileage may vary. Disclaimer that I'm posting in kind of a hurry, so I'll just admit the details here probably don't make sense.
- john2010 5y ago
  +1 for your ideas!
- bruce343434 5y ago
  Your cause is noble but this is just way too much effort.
  - sounds 5y ago
    It's the same amount of effort for a desktop PC and desktop OS: apps have to do their own updating because I installed them myself. The sibling poster suggested using an alternative app store, which seems like a good way to make this less onerous, with the downside of more malware... I want the same benefit as the desktop PC, specifically that I own it, control it, and don't have to sign in to use it.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  That is hardly a solution. You also act like by "inventing" a burner account that Google has no clue who you are, but that is simply not the case. If so their service would be overrun with spammers. Generally they require that you also verify a real phone number to setup an account. Also, once you've done all this you can download APKs from Google Play Store without needing a burner phone. They've had extensions that do this for some time. Might as well just do it from the computer and or use an alternative app store. If you really don't want someone to sign in to Google services, then there are ROMs made specifically for that. Have them use CardDav and CalDav. Use email with IMAP, etc. The route you've chose seems way too convoluted for no purpose other than the illusion that you're somehow unidentifiable.
  - sounds 5y ago
    We're solving different problems. By purchasing a burner phone, I am definitely traceable by law enforcement. You want to be untraceable after a crime - I'm not solving that problem. Your other suggestions are fine ideas, there's not a specific right or wrong way to do it.