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> I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC Yes, you will. Eventually. They'll continue to beat you down until you submit. Because, here's t

> I Will Never Use a Microsoft Account to Log Into My Own PC Yes, you will. Eventually. They'll continue to beat you down until you submit. Because, here's the secret. Even though you built the machine from the ground up, hand selecting all the parts, once you install Windows, the machine belongs to Microsoft. No, really, it does. They certainly think so. And they're a rich powerful organization, so it must be so.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
BLKNSLVR 5y ago
Windows isn't anywhere near as ubiquitous as it used to be. Once W11 requires a MS login I'm not installing it for any friends or family - they're getting on the Linux express or working it out themselves. I won't be party to this BS, this isn't the future I wanted to facilitate.
- arp242 5y ago
  Both Android and iOS require an account to be practically useful for most people, and have for years. Microsoft is "only" following suit, and I'm afraid that a bunch of hackers here aren't enough to stop the tide :-/
  - Brakenshire 5y ago
    People here can keep an alternative alive.
  - danhor 5y ago
    At least on Android, they're not really hiding the option of not using an account as opposed to what microsoft is doing. Probably because most people will use one anyway for the play store.
  - sounds 5y ago
    There's a solution I put out there for my non-technical friends. I just tell them to buy two Android devices. Obviously with iOS this won't work, but then again, iOS devices aren't cheap enough for this to be a reasonable approach anyway. Device #1: Buy the cheapest device you can. I give my friends specific recommendations. Invent a new burner gmail account for it. Install whatever you want off the Play Store - obviously, use all the normal caution to avoid any malware. Never put any personal info on it, so never put a SIM card in it, just connect over wifi. Device #2: Buy a nice Android device. Never sign in. Put the SIM card in this one. Side load apps and update them by extracting the APK from device #1. Export your contacts from Google and load them manually (and save a backup). Access your email using IMAP from a third party app. Backup your photos using a third party app. The point is _not_ to use Google Pay, Google Assistant, and Google Cloud. • Google Maps works without being signed in • Google Play Store will update Google Maps (and the default apps on the device) without being signed in, but it does use dark patterns to try to get you to sign in • Android OS updates will work without being signed in It is more work, no question. It works for me. Your mileage may vary. Disclaimer that I'm posting in kind of a hurry, so I'll just admit the details here probably don't make sense.
    - john2010 5y ago
      +1 for your ideas!
    - bruce343434 5y ago
      Your cause is noble but this is just way too much effort.
      - sounds 5y ago
        It's the same amount of effort for a desktop PC and desktop OS: apps have to do their own updating because I installed them myself. The sibling poster suggested using an alternative app store, which seems like a good way to make this less onerous, with the downside of more malware... I want the same benefit as the desktop PC, specifically that I own it, control it, and don't have to sign in to use it.
    - 5y ago
judge2020 5y ago
'ownership' is just a term to mean the physical representation of your expensive hardware. When you install Windows you can't just use the parts that allow you to benefit from their hundreds of millions of dollars worth of work without giving them the data they also ask for before you can use it. Everyone is moving to this but it only works because people still want to reap the benefits of the investments these big companies have made, so for as long as people pay for the products/use the products they'll continue to make using Windows/iOS/Android such a value proposition with the "only" price being yout data. No amount of money can match what they'll get in share value from having that user data.
maxk42 5y ago
This kind of behavior inspired me to finally make the switch to full-time Linux eight years ago. I've tried Ubuntu, Arch, Fedora, and a handful of smaller distros. But with the Cinnamon desktop environment my day to day computing experience is truly enjoyable next to the constant slew of confirmation dialogs and dark patterns a Microsoft experience provides. However - you're right. Whenever I want to play a video game, there's a 90% chance I have to use Windows to do it. So now I keep two computers - one for gaming, one for everything else. Each time I log into the gaming computer I'm reminded how much Windows sucks. I just feel really bad for the average computer user who knows intuitively this is wrong but doesn't know how to do things like install linux or have the money to purchase an Apple machine.
- kinjba11 5y ago
  > who knows intuitively this is wrong I think you're vastly overestimating the average computer user here :) Most will make no meaningful distinction between a local account and an online one. If they could sign into Windows with their Facebook account they probably would.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

BLKNSLVR 5y ago

Windows isn't anywhere near as ubiquitous as it used to be. Once W11 requires a MS login I'm not installing it for any friends or family - they're getting on the Linux express or working it out themselves. I won't be party to this BS, this isn't the future I wanted to facilitate.

arp242 5y ago
Both Android and iOS require an account to be practically useful for most people, and have for years. Microsoft is "only" following suit, and I'm afraid that a bunch of hackers here aren't enough to stop the tide :-/
- Brakenshire 5y ago
  People here can keep an alternative alive.
- danhor 5y ago
  At least on Android, they're not really hiding the option of not using an account as opposed to what microsoft is doing. Probably because most people will use one anyway for the play store.
- sounds 5y ago
  There's a solution I put out there for my non-technical friends. I just tell them to buy two Android devices. Obviously with iOS this won't work, but then again, iOS devices aren't cheap enough for this to be a reasonable approach anyway. Device #1: Buy the cheapest device you can. I give my friends specific recommendations. Invent a new burner gmail account for it. Install whatever you want off the Play Store - obviously, use all the normal caution to avoid any malware. Never put any personal info on it, so never put a SIM card in it, just connect over wifi. Device #2: Buy a nice Android device. Never sign in. Put the SIM card in this one. Side load apps and update them by extracting the APK from device #1. Export your contacts from Google and load them manually (and save a backup). Access your email using IMAP from a third party app. Backup your photos using a third party app. The point is _not_ to use Google Pay, Google Assistant, and Google Cloud. • Google Maps works without being signed in • Google Play Store will update Google Maps (and the default apps on the device) without being signed in, but it does use dark patterns to try to get you to sign in • Android OS updates will work without being signed in It is more work, no question. It works for me. Your mileage may vary. Disclaimer that I'm posting in kind of a hurry, so I'll just admit the details here probably don't make sense.
  - john2010 5y ago
    +1 for your ideas!
  - bruce343434 5y ago
    Your cause is noble but this is just way too much effort.
    - sounds 5y ago
      It's the same amount of effort for a desktop PC and desktop OS: apps have to do their own updating because I installed them myself. The sibling poster suggested using an alternative app store, which seems like a good way to make this less onerous, with the downside of more malware... I want the same benefit as the desktop PC, specifically that I own it, control it, and don't have to sign in to use it.
  - 5y ago

judge2020 5y ago

'ownership' is just a term to mean the physical representation of your expensive hardware. When you install Windows you can't just use the parts that allow you to benefit from their hundreds of millions of dollars worth of work without giving them the data they also ask for before you can use it. Everyone is moving to this but it only works because people still want to reap the benefits of the investments these big companies have made, so for as long as people pay for the products/use the products they'll continue to make using Windows/iOS/Android such a value proposition with the "only" price being yout data. No amount of money can match what they'll get in share value from having that user data.

maxk42 5y ago

This kind of behavior inspired me to finally make the switch to full-time Linux eight years ago. I've tried Ubuntu, Arch, Fedora, and a handful of smaller distros. But with the Cinnamon desktop environment my day to day computing experience is truly enjoyable next to the constant slew of confirmation dialogs and dark patterns a Microsoft experience provides. However - you're right. Whenever I want to play a video game, there's a 90% chance I have to use Windows to do it. So now I keep two computers - one for gaming, one for everything else. Each time I log into the gaming computer I'm reminded how much Windows sucks. I just feel really bad for the average computer user who knows intuitively this is wrong but doesn't know how to do things like install linux or have the money to purchase an Apple machine.

kinjba11 5y ago
> who knows intuitively this is wrong I think you're vastly overestimating the average computer user here :) Most will make no meaningful distinction between a local account and an online one. If they could sign into Windows with their Facebook account they probably would.