4 ms·

I really don't get it. Microsoft has an OS and a Cloud (Azure and Windows) and make pretty much good money with it, but both have a great need for privacy. I re

by nix23 5y ago

I really don't get it. Microsoft has an OS and a Cloud (Azure and Windows) and make pretty much good money with it, but both have a great need for privacy. I really don't get what Microsoft is thinking.

toyg 5y ago
Microsoft is thinking that Apple somehow manages to have billions of people creating "iTunes" accounts, and they don't, and what the hell, John, why don't WE get all that sweet data and them big account numbers, can't we do what they do? Sure, Bob, but some people will get upse--Screw them, John! what they gonna do, move to Apple and pay more get the same treatment? Just fix the damn process, John, I want those account numbers up 300% by Q3. ...Alright Bob, you're the boss.
- agloeregrets 5y ago
  ....actually you do not need an iCloud account to use a mac or iPhone, but on iPhone you do need an iCloud account to download apps. On mac you can setup and use the machine entirely offline forever. The same irony goes for the Windows 11 CPU support, the next version of macOS supports machines twice as old as Windows 11 supports. Microsoft embraces alt payment methods in the store and supports regulation, Apple doesn't and is the monopoly. The world is upside down in such strange ways in 2021.
  - toyg 5y ago
    > you do not need an iCloud account to use a mac or iPhone ... but you are similarly prompted and dark-patterned to create one anyway. It is just marginally easier to skip the choice, if you don't mind being nagged or diving into the buried option you need to switch it all off. And without an account, loads of features like family Screen Time don't even work. Apple paved the way, while MS was being cautious because of the browser-related legal challenges. They made all this socially acceptable, so at one point the guys in Redmond rightly went "why can't we do the same?" and here we are.
    - gentleman11 5y ago
      They aren’t afraid of those legal issues any more. They basically say Firefox is malware if you try to install it and you have to click that you are okay with insecure software to continue
    - agloeregrets 5y ago
      Microsoft started the majority of this back in Windows 8 and made it a dark pattern to skip in 10, this isn't really an Apple thing. The whole industry moved this way. Windows 11 breaks the bar here and requires internet now. It's not a dark pattern or skippable like you are implying here and it's not on remotely the same level as Apple or Google. Microsoft clearly is being the worst of anyone here.
      - toyg 5y ago
        Windows 8 was a reaction to the iPhone wave in everything, from the UI to this. > it's not on remotely the same level as Apple or Google Oh, it absolutely is. "The healthier one is a leper", as they (used to) say where I'm from .
mavhc 5y ago
They're thinking they need to make it 1 click to buy things from Microsoft
CSMastermind 5y ago
In the case of requiring a phone number for emails it's to try and cut down on spam / bots abusing their service.
- gabereiser 5y ago
  you would think, but that's not the case. It's used to correlate data sharing between data brokerages. Facebook has your number, Twitter has your number, Microsoft has your number. What better FK to link all this data together than that? Now Microsoft knows what you searched for. Twitter knows what you bought on Amazon. Facebook knows who you hung out with. It's all about the data brokerages.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Obviously it can be for more than one purpose. See spam reports from email1@outlook.com with phone number $x? Disable sending email for all accounts with that phone number. They've already signed up for three accounts this month with that number? Stop them from making any more without paying for a new number.
    - gabereiser 5y ago
      I mean, sure, it can be used this way. Often is for email deduplication of accounts. It's real strength comes from 3rd party data brokers and correlating various data profiles to you, the consumer.
  - gigel82 5y ago
    I'd be very surprised if these companies actually share the private data with each-other (or any external party for that matter). I worked at a FAANG and they take private data handling very seriously (you can't even access it internally without a very involved approval process and always partially).
    - gabereiser 5y ago
      They don’t share it directly with each other, it’s through data brokers. Oracle being the biggest (here in the states) along with Experian, equifax, etc. I’m not talking about platform specific data. I’m talking about browser history, cookies, transactional, and the like. I know for a fact that one FAANG uses your browsers history to run adtech against it to show you relevant ads related to a previous search. Just because you couldn’t access it, doesn’t mean someone else wasn’t.

by nix23 5y ago

toyg 5y ago

Microsoft is thinking that Apple somehow manages to have billions of people creating "iTunes" accounts, and they don't, and what the hell, John, why don't WE get all that sweet data and them big account numbers, can't we do what they do? Sure, Bob, but some people will get upse--Screw them, John! what they gonna do, move to Apple and pay more get the same treatment? Just fix the damn process, John, I want those account numbers up 300% by Q3. ...Alright Bob, you're the boss.

agloeregrets 5y ago
....actually you do not need an iCloud account to use a mac or iPhone, but on iPhone you do need an iCloud account to download apps. On mac you can setup and use the machine entirely offline forever. The same irony goes for the Windows 11 CPU support, the next version of macOS supports machines twice as old as Windows 11 supports. Microsoft embraces alt payment methods in the store and supports regulation, Apple doesn't and is the monopoly. The world is upside down in such strange ways in 2021.
- toyg 5y ago
  > you do not need an iCloud account to use a mac or iPhone ... but you are similarly prompted and dark-patterned to create one anyway. It is just marginally easier to skip the choice, if you don't mind being nagged or diving into the buried option you need to switch it all off. And without an account, loads of features like family Screen Time don't even work. Apple paved the way, while MS was being cautious because of the browser-related legal challenges. They made all this socially acceptable, so at one point the guys in Redmond rightly went "why can't we do the same?" and here we are.
  - gentleman11 5y ago
    They aren’t afraid of those legal issues any more. They basically say Firefox is malware if you try to install it and you have to click that you are okay with insecure software to continue
  - agloeregrets 5y ago
    Microsoft started the majority of this back in Windows 8 and made it a dark pattern to skip in 10, this isn't really an Apple thing. The whole industry moved this way. Windows 11 breaks the bar here and requires internet now. It's not a dark pattern or skippable like you are implying here and it's not on remotely the same level as Apple or Google. Microsoft clearly is being the worst of anyone here.
    - toyg 5y ago
      Windows 8 was a reaction to the iPhone wave in everything, from the UI to this. > it's not on remotely the same level as Apple or Google Oh, it absolutely is. "The healthier one is a leper", as they (used to) say where I'm from .

mavhc 5y ago

They're thinking they need to make it 1 click to buy things from Microsoft

CSMastermind 5y ago

In the case of requiring a phone number for emails it's to try and cut down on spam / bots abusing their service.

gabereiser 5y ago
you would think, but that's not the case. It's used to correlate data sharing between data brokerages. Facebook has your number, Twitter has your number, Microsoft has your number. What better FK to link all this data together than that? Now Microsoft knows what you searched for. Twitter knows what you bought on Amazon. Facebook knows who you hung out with. It's all about the data brokerages.
- judge2020 5y ago
  Obviously it can be for more than one purpose. See spam reports from email1@outlook.com with phone number $x? Disable sending email for all accounts with that phone number. They've already signed up for three accounts this month with that number? Stop them from making any more without paying for a new number.
  - gabereiser 5y ago
    I mean, sure, it can be used this way. Often is for email deduplication of accounts. It's real strength comes from 3rd party data brokers and correlating various data profiles to you, the consumer.
- gigel82 5y ago
  I'd be very surprised if these companies actually share the private data with each-other (or any external party for that matter). I worked at a FAANG and they take private data handling very seriously (you can't even access it internally without a very involved approval process and always partially).
  - gabereiser 5y ago
    They don’t share it directly with each other, it’s through data brokers. Oracle being the biggest (here in the states) along with Experian, equifax, etc. I’m not talking about platform specific data. I’m talking about browser history, cookies, transactional, and the like. I know for a fact that one FAANG uses your browsers history to run adtech against it to show you relevant ads related to a previous search. Just because you couldn’t access it, doesn’t mean someone else wasn’t.