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I feel bad about you man, and I wish people in this website could recognize your experience rather than simply downvote it because it is not aligned with their

I feel bad about you man, and I wish people in this website could recognize your experience rather than simply downvote it because it is not aligned with their political views.

tstrimple 5y ago
No reason to feel bad. Reactionaries get lots of support on this site. See! Their rant about how all their problems are the fault of feminists and liberals is no longer grey.
- wruza 5y ago
  You can only get -4, so it depends on how much upvotes in a row you get (until you’re flagged). That said, “it’s fault of feminists and liberals” is not what he meant, afaiu. He is complaining about the lack of attention to all “boring” problems like men suicide only because there are some fast-fashion peak problems which are supported by those who have less to do in their life. Again, afaiu. While my views are different, I see no reason to summarize his views the way you did.
  - tstrimple 5y ago
    It's funny how these sort of posts only seem to bring up male suicide when talking about feminism. It's almost like they don't actually care about male suicide as a problem just as a handy cudgel to be used against feminism. Yet when the conversation turns to things which actually have a major impact on suicide among men like toxic masculinity, they often deny such things even exist or is really just an attack against men. This is clear if you just take a look at a few more posts from the above poster. The only time they ever bring up issues with men is to contrast them with "how easy" women have it. It's got gems like this: > "- Cult of female employment as their main role in society, which, in positions of power, happens to soften the stance towards criminals and deconstruct structures (hierarchies, things that worked to develop our nations, justice system). I don’t know the ratio for Cali but in France, 76 to 81% graduates of ENM (main school for judges) are female since 1977, and we basically free the criminals because they have compassion for them." > "So I never demanded anything from my father up to the point I needed him. At 35 years old I told him modern women were unmanageable and my life was turning sour, and I needed help, I needed people to understand that men are being mistreated by the system, but I said it with ample documentation (you could watch the excellent movie The Red Pill, which depicts pretty much the complexity of our position), and that the only answer of society towards us is “Incel”. By the time I asked my father, I had already created some networks through politicians, but on the topic that interests me, all still had the same dismissive position, because promoting men doesn’t work politically. I’m saying that so you don’t say that I hadn’t walked my walk." > "There aren’t many ways besides violence to be heard by people who refuse to hear us. I’ve already tried words! And more importantly for me: I’ve already tried taking positive action."
    - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
      Feminists only want to blame "toxic masculinity" (which I believe is a real thing but feminists often define toxic masculinity as all masculinity) for male suicide rates and is just as disingenuous as the point you think your making
flamble 5y ago
What I found so frustrating about the comment was how close it was to some sort of insight, while maddeningly not connecting the dots. He has some vague sense that his unhappiness is related to "workaholism", but is so fixated on gender politics that he twists it to revolve around that. He imagines that women have a "choice of careers, choice of being a mother while the husband provides", apparently oblivious to the economic reality that single-income families are an impossibility for the majority of people, not because of feminism, but because of market forces. You can see the alienation and the sense of rage and despair engendered by social atomization and hustle worship, only to be channeled not against any of the root causes, but some bogeyman like feminism which, precisely because of the aforementioned dislocation, hits closer to home emotionally. And the worst of it is hearing echoes of my previous self in the words (projected or not), but being aware of the irony that it's only people who ARE close to you who have a chance of helping you out of that kind of morass.
- exporectomy 5y ago
  Feminism was just one of the several things he said. There are plenty of zero-income families - single mothers. So single-income families are surely even more possible. Usually only women have this choice. Men can't choose family over career.
  - bluejekyll 5y ago
    > Men can't choose family over career. I’m not sure why you think this. I have quite a few friends and families in my circle where the women are the primary breadwinners of the family. Let alone the number of two-mother and two-father households. In almost all cases dual-incomes are the norm. When you say, “men can’t choose family”, who’s preventing that?
  - schrijver 5y ago
    How does that work? You get money just for being a mother? At least the way it works in the countries I’ve lived in is that if you’re on the dole it doesn’t matter if you’re a mother (or a father for that matter)—you still have the obligation to find a job. And as a man you can totally chose family over career, in the same way that women do. There’s a social stigma against it, of course. And it can be economically difficult—but that’s the case for women as well. Of course, the pressure for a man to act as a provider and to focus on his career is very real. I think laurent92 isn’t wrong about the pressures men face. It’s weird though to blame that on feminism. I think feminism already helped chip away at the pressure. A stay-at-home dad should be acceptable to a feminist, more so than to someone who never gave pause to these questions. But in the end, it’s not feminism’s job to take care of men’s mental health, that’s really something that requires a movement of its own.
pmoriarty 5y ago
"simply downvote it because it is not aligned with their political views" The parent poster is literally seething with hatred. If that doesn't deserve a downvote on HN, regardless of your political views, I don't know what does. We've also seen many times that hatred against women in online forums has led to acts of violence against women in real life. That also deserves to be called out and condemned, regardless of one's politics.
- sizzle 5y ago
  Would his perspective change if he had a girlfriend or a wife? I think he would be able to better empathize with the opposite sex.

I feel bad about you man, and I wish people in this website could recognize your experience rather than simply downvote it because it is not aligned with their political views.

tstrimple 5y ago

No reason to feel bad. Reactionaries get lots of support on this site. See! Their rant about how all their problems are the fault of feminists and liberals is no longer grey.

wruza 5y ago
You can only get -4, so it depends on how much upvotes in a row you get (until you’re flagged). That said, “it’s fault of feminists and liberals” is not what he meant, afaiu. He is complaining about the lack of attention to all “boring” problems like men suicide only because there are some fast-fashion peak problems which are supported by those who have less to do in their life. Again, afaiu. While my views are different, I see no reason to summarize his views the way you did.
- tstrimple 5y ago
  It's funny how these sort of posts only seem to bring up male suicide when talking about feminism. It's almost like they don't actually care about male suicide as a problem just as a handy cudgel to be used against feminism. Yet when the conversation turns to things which actually have a major impact on suicide among men like toxic masculinity, they often deny such things even exist or is really just an attack against men. This is clear if you just take a look at a few more posts from the above poster. The only time they ever bring up issues with men is to contrast them with "how easy" women have it. It's got gems like this: > "- Cult of female employment as their main role in society, which, in positions of power, happens to soften the stance towards criminals and deconstruct structures (hierarchies, things that worked to develop our nations, justice system). I don’t know the ratio for Cali but in France, 76 to 81% graduates of ENM (main school for judges) are female since 1977, and we basically free the criminals because they have compassion for them." > "So I never demanded anything from my father up to the point I needed him. At 35 years old I told him modern women were unmanageable and my life was turning sour, and I needed help, I needed people to understand that men are being mistreated by the system, but I said it with ample documentation (you could watch the excellent movie The Red Pill, which depicts pretty much the complexity of our position), and that the only answer of society towards us is “Incel”. By the time I asked my father, I had already created some networks through politicians, but on the topic that interests me, all still had the same dismissive position, because promoting men doesn’t work politically. I’m saying that so you don’t say that I hadn’t walked my walk." > "There aren’t many ways besides violence to be heard by people who refuse to hear us. I’ve already tried words! And more importantly for me: I’ve already tried taking positive action."
  - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
    Feminists only want to blame "toxic masculinity" (which I believe is a real thing but feminists often define toxic masculinity as all masculinity) for male suicide rates and is just as disingenuous as the point you think your making

flamble 5y ago

What I found so frustrating about the comment was how close it was to some sort of insight, while maddeningly not connecting the dots. He has some vague sense that his unhappiness is related to "workaholism", but is so fixated on gender politics that he twists it to revolve around that. He imagines that women have a "choice of careers, choice of being a mother while the husband provides", apparently oblivious to the economic reality that single-income families are an impossibility for the majority of people, not because of feminism, but because of market forces. You can see the alienation and the sense of rage and despair engendered by social atomization and hustle worship, only to be channeled not against any of the root causes, but some bogeyman like feminism which, precisely because of the aforementioned dislocation, hits closer to home emotionally. And the worst of it is hearing echoes of my previous self in the words (projected or not), but being aware of the irony that it's only people who ARE close to you who have a chance of helping you out of that kind of morass.

exporectomy 5y ago
Feminism was just one of the several things he said. There are plenty of zero-income families - single mothers. So single-income families are surely even more possible. Usually only women have this choice. Men can't choose family over career.
- bluejekyll 5y ago
  > Men can't choose family over career. I’m not sure why you think this. I have quite a few friends and families in my circle where the women are the primary breadwinners of the family. Let alone the number of two-mother and two-father households. In almost all cases dual-incomes are the norm. When you say, “men can’t choose family”, who’s preventing that?
- schrijver 5y ago
  How does that work? You get money just for being a mother? At least the way it works in the countries I’ve lived in is that if you’re on the dole it doesn’t matter if you’re a mother (or a father for that matter)—you still have the obligation to find a job. And as a man you can totally chose family over career, in the same way that women do. There’s a social stigma against it, of course. And it can be economically difficult—but that’s the case for women as well. Of course, the pressure for a man to act as a provider and to focus on his career is very real. I think laurent92 isn’t wrong about the pressures men face. It’s weird though to blame that on feminism. I think feminism already helped chip away at the pressure. A stay-at-home dad should be acceptable to a feminist, more so than to someone who never gave pause to these questions. But in the end, it’s not feminism’s job to take care of men’s mental health, that’s really something that requires a movement of its own.

pmoriarty 5y ago

"simply downvote it because it is not aligned with their political views" The parent poster is literally seething with hatred. If that doesn't deserve a downvote on HN, regardless of your political views, I don't know what does. We've also seen many times that hatred against women in online forums has led to acts of violence against women in real life. That also deserves to be called out and condemned, regardless of one's politics.

sizzle 5y ago
Would his perspective change if he had a girlfriend or a wife? I think he would be able to better empathize with the opposite sex.