6 ms·

There's no speed limit (2009)

118 points by chintanp 15y ago

chintanp 15y ago
"Kimo's high expectations set a new pace for me. He taught me the standard pace is for chumps - that the system is designed so anyone can keep up. If you're more driven than just anyone - you can do so much more than anyone expects. And this applies to ALL of life - not just school". I wish someone had told me this while I was in school.
- skrebbel 15y ago
  The thing I liked about standard pace was that I had plenty of time to fail in boards of student societies, events organizing and an own company and whatnot. I always wonder a bit whether the people who skip years and study super-fast really know anything about the world.
- dkersten 15y ago
  Agreed. I only realised it shortly after graduating, slightly too late :(
- sixtofour 15y ago
  I remember reading this a couple years ago. After I read it today I told my kid to stop the video game and "read this." Then we talked about it, how if you want you can go beyond what the teacher is teaching, or even in a parallel direction if the teacher isn't covering what you want.
diolpah 15y ago
Some good takeaways here, and an inspirational message, but the human brain still has a reasonably fixed (over the long term) bits per second acquisition/retention rate for pure information and a fixed degree of neural plasticity. In reality, there is a speed limit. At least until Kurzweil gets his way.
- quickpost 15y ago
  The only limit is yourself.... http://zombo.com/ http://zombo.com/
  - rooshdi 15y ago
    They might of downvoted you, but this is hilarious. Thanks for sharing my man. I feel invincible now.
- loup-vaillant 15y ago
  I agree with your conclusion. Just a nitpick: I wouldn't trust the strong version of the accelerating change hypothesis. Actually augment our intelligence, or at least our speed of thought probably require major breakthroughs in neuroscience and relevant fields in engineering, which may occur as not-so-predictable quantum leaps. Plus, there the safety problem: if we ever enhance someone's intelligence, we may want to make sure that (i) it doesn't make him mad, and (ii) the guy doesn't plan to take over the world. The proper sanity checks may require yet other breakthroughs. In the end, Friendly AI may be easier.
  - blankslate 15y ago
    Also, change in technology may find itself outstripping society's ability (or willingness) to integrate it. In fact, I'd say it already is, and has been for quite some time. We have the technology already to facilitate incredible intelligence - it's just extremely unevenly distributed, and stifled by lack of political will and social inertia.
- vnchr 15y ago
  By that qualification, the Autobahn has a speed limit too: the limit of how fast land vehicles can move. The analogy of the blog holds. Infinity only happens in calculus, so why bother poo-pooing a helpful metaphor? Like a good vision statement in a business plan that calls for a direction without bothering with a specific magnitude, "There is no speed limit" calls the reader to question limitations as a matter of directing their imagination to the problem of expectation as opposed the conventional expectation. Dream onward...
xyzzyz 15y ago
That's definitely true. I started studying CS two years ago on one of the best Maths/CS departments in eastern Europe, last year I started Maths and I expect to get both Bachelor's next year. It was pretty hard, especially the exam sessions, but it was also a lot of fun -- definitely worth it. Now I'm an intern in Santa Clara and it feels like holiday. My advice is, if you're not sure whether you'll be able to do something, don't hesitate -- most of the time nothing bad happens if you fail, and if your case is different, the greater your motivation will be.
brianimmel 15y ago
Previous thread http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=970945 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=970945
netrus 15y ago
Best detail about the site: You can change the language. But at least for German, it is no automatic translation. He translated his whole site to multiple languages. wow!
- sivers 15y ago
  Glad you like that! Yeah I hired 9 translators to translate into 9 languages. If you switch it to Arabic it goes right-to-left. Fun design challenge.
  - guilbep 15y ago
    I saw some mistakes in the french version, I switched back to english once I realized it wasn't the original language. It tooked me two paragraphs to notice it. (I'm a native french speaker.) I thought you would like to know that :) !! Great article. Thanks!
loup-vaillant 15y ago
Seems to manage Accept-language (I see French). Neat.
- sivers 15y ago
  Thanks! Sorry the French translation isn't great. Turns out the guy that I hired wasn't a native speaker, just pretending, and I've heard from a lot of people that it's a pretty bad translation. Gotta re-do it.
  - ecaradec 15y ago
    Actually the french is correct, it's more that it's doesn't sound like a good writer.
lloeki 15y ago
"The pace was intense, and I loved it. Finally, someone was challenging me - keeping me in over my head - encouraging and expecting me to pull myself up, quickly. I was learning so fast, it had the adrenaline of sports or a video game. A two-way game of catch, he tossed every fact back at me and made me prove I got it." That's precisely the fundamentals of France classes préparatoires (or casually prépa): iterate swiftly and efficiently on knowledge by challenging yourself to the upper limit... and above: there are quite a bunch of things I never ever thought I would be able to grasp, let alone master, yet I did, and more. In our three-hour lesson that morning, he taught me a full semester of Berklee's harmony courses. The first year's Mathematics course started with a single day during which we re-learned everything we though we knew about Mathematics that we learnt during the last three years. Yes, we covered three years worth in one day. It was an eye opener about the field of Mathematics as a whole. Physics course took another yet similar in goal approach. The second year began with a full week Math course during which we re-learned everything we learned during that first year. This gave us a perspective of how far we've come but also at how challenging the coming year would be. I actually failed that second year the first time, although barely so I retried, with success. It's extremely sad that this system is unpopular because it's perceived as elitist and inegalitarian, as well as an archaic Napoleonian process. People want education to cater for the poor folk that has a hard time keeping up with the basics (which is a worthwhile goal) but are dismissive to those that can easily keep up and more. In hindsight I could have actually failed before reaching la prépa out of boredom.
- cdavid 15y ago
  It may not be obvious to every reader, but Berkelee school would actually be classes prepa here, as it is one of the most prestigious music school in the world. What Sivers talks about here is to go much beyond that. I would not put "classes prepa" in the challenging category. It is actually rather dull 2/3 years where you learn not so much about the material, but learn how to solve many exercices (I like the example given by Pierre Gilles de Gennes, which reminds me of my own attitude during some kholles: http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/fragile-objects/ http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/fragile-objects/). Most people entering classes preparatoires will get out with something, so per definition it is not challenging: challenging means doing something that you did not think were possible from yourself. While classes preparatoires were not always easy for me, I was never really challenged by it, and I think most people were not either.
nadam 15y ago
Good article, but the title is a bit too sensational for me. I agree that a good teacher and motivation can help you reach your potential very fast. I would say there are two range of domains: - 1. almost only synthetic, axiom system has small 'Kolmogorov complexity': mathematics, algorithmization (on non-research level) - 2. more pattern matching, processing of huge amount of information: history, politics, industrial software development, business and everything on research-level. In the first range, if you find a good teacher and you are motivated then you can go to your potential extremely fast. Miracles happen within weeks. After a point you reach the 2. range, where you are already playing in a league with similarly skilled people, and you progress only extremely slowly. That's why some geeks are much better in math at the age 12 than the average adult, but they have to learn and practice for long years to become a professional mathematician or to create a successful software business.

118 points by chintanp 15y ago

"Kimo's high expectations set a new pace for me. He taught me the standard pace is for chumps - that the system is designed so anyone can keep up. If you're more driven than just anyone - you can do so much more than anyone expects. And this applies to ALL of life - not just school". I wish someone had told me this while I was in school.

skrebbel 15y ago
The thing I liked about standard pace was that I had plenty of time to fail in boards of student societies, events organizing and an own company and whatnot. I always wonder a bit whether the people who skip years and study super-fast really know anything about the world.
dkersten 15y ago
Agreed. I only realised it shortly after graduating, slightly too late :(
sixtofour 15y ago
I remember reading this a couple years ago. After I read it today I told my kid to stop the video game and "read this." Then we talked about it, how if you want you can go beyond what the teacher is teaching, or even in a parallel direction if the teacher isn't covering what you want.

diolpah 15y ago

Some good takeaways here, and an inspirational message, but the human brain still has a reasonably fixed (over the long term) bits per second acquisition/retention rate for pure information and a fixed degree of neural plasticity. In reality, there is a speed limit. At least until Kurzweil gets his way.

quickpost 15y ago
The only limit is yourself.... http://zombo.com/ http://zombo.com/
- rooshdi 15y ago
  They might of downvoted you, but this is hilarious. Thanks for sharing my man. I feel invincible now.
loup-vaillant 15y ago
I agree with your conclusion. Just a nitpick: I wouldn't trust the strong version of the accelerating change hypothesis. Actually augment our intelligence, or at least our speed of thought probably require major breakthroughs in neuroscience and relevant fields in engineering, which may occur as not-so-predictable quantum leaps. Plus, there the safety problem: if we ever enhance someone's intelligence, we may want to make sure that (i) it doesn't make him mad, and (ii) the guy doesn't plan to take over the world. The proper sanity checks may require yet other breakthroughs. In the end, Friendly AI may be easier.
- blankslate 15y ago
  Also, change in technology may find itself outstripping society's ability (or willingness) to integrate it. In fact, I'd say it already is, and has been for quite some time. We have the technology already to facilitate incredible intelligence - it's just extremely unevenly distributed, and stifled by lack of political will and social inertia.
vnchr 15y ago
By that qualification, the Autobahn has a speed limit too: the limit of how fast land vehicles can move. The analogy of the blog holds. Infinity only happens in calculus, so why bother poo-pooing a helpful metaphor? Like a good vision statement in a business plan that calls for a direction without bothering with a specific magnitude, "There is no speed limit" calls the reader to question limitations as a matter of directing their imagination to the problem of expectation as opposed the conventional expectation. Dream onward...

xyzzyz 15y ago

That's definitely true. I started studying CS two years ago on one of the best Maths/CS departments in eastern Europe, last year I started Maths and I expect to get both Bachelor's next year. It was pretty hard, especially the exam sessions, but it was also a lot of fun -- definitely worth it. Now I'm an intern in Santa Clara and it feels like holiday. My advice is, if you're not sure whether you'll be able to do something, don't hesitate -- most of the time nothing bad happens if you fail, and if your case is different, the greater your motivation will be.

brianimmel 15y ago

Previous thread http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=970945 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=970945

netrus 15y ago

Best detail about the site: You can change the language. But at least for German, it is no automatic translation. He translated his whole site to multiple languages. wow!

sivers 15y ago
Glad you like that! Yeah I hired 9 translators to translate into 9 languages. If you switch it to Arabic it goes right-to-left. Fun design challenge.
- guilbep 15y ago
  I saw some mistakes in the french version, I switched back to english once I realized it wasn't the original language. It tooked me two paragraphs to notice it. (I'm a native french speaker.) I thought you would like to know that :) !! Great article. Thanks!

loup-vaillant 15y ago

Seems to manage Accept-language (I see French). Neat.

sivers 15y ago
Thanks! Sorry the French translation isn't great. Turns out the guy that I hired wasn't a native speaker, just pretending, and I've heard from a lot of people that it's a pretty bad translation. Gotta re-do it.
- ecaradec 15y ago
  Actually the french is correct, it's more that it's doesn't sound like a good writer.

lloeki 15y ago

"The pace was intense, and I loved it. Finally, someone was challenging me - keeping me in over my head - encouraging and expecting me to pull myself up, quickly. I was learning so fast, it had the adrenaline of sports or a video game. A two-way game of catch, he tossed every fact back at me and made me prove I got it." That's precisely the fundamentals of France classes préparatoires (or casually prépa): iterate swiftly and efficiently on knowledge by challenging yourself to the upper limit... and above: there are quite a bunch of things I never ever thought I would be able to grasp, let alone master, yet I did, and more. In our three-hour lesson that morning, he taught me a full semester of Berklee's harmony courses. The first year's Mathematics course started with a single day during which we re-learned everything we though we knew about Mathematics that we learnt during the last three years. Yes, we covered three years worth in one day. It was an eye opener about the field of Mathematics as a whole. Physics course took another yet similar in goal approach. The second year began with a full week Math course during which we re-learned everything we learned during that first year. This gave us a perspective of how far we've come but also at how challenging the coming year would be. I actually failed that second year the first time, although barely so I retried, with success. It's extremely sad that this system is unpopular because it's perceived as elitist and inegalitarian, as well as an archaic Napoleonian process. People want education to cater for the poor folk that has a hard time keeping up with the basics (which is a worthwhile goal) but are dismissive to those that can easily keep up and more. In hindsight I could have actually failed before reaching la prépa out of boredom.

cdavid 15y ago
It may not be obvious to every reader, but Berkelee school would actually be classes prepa here, as it is one of the most prestigious music school in the world. What Sivers talks about here is to go much beyond that. I would not put "classes prepa" in the challenging category. It is actually rather dull 2/3 years where you learn not so much about the material, but learn how to solve many exercices (I like the example given by Pierre Gilles de Gennes, which reminds me of my own attitude during some kholles: http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/fragile-objects/ http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/fragile-objects/). Most people entering classes preparatoires will get out with something, so per definition it is not challenging: challenging means doing something that you did not think were possible from yourself. While classes preparatoires were not always easy for me, I was never really challenged by it, and I think most people were not either.

nadam 15y ago

Good article, but the title is a bit too sensational for me. I agree that a good teacher and motivation can help you reach your potential very fast. I would say there are two range of domains: - 1. almost only synthetic, axiom system has small 'Kolmogorov complexity': mathematics, algorithmization (on non-research level) - 2. more pattern matching, processing of huge amount of information: history, politics, industrial software development, business and everything on research-level. In the first range, if you find a good teacher and you are motivated then you can go to your potential extremely fast. Miracles happen within weeks. After a point you reach the 2. range, where you are already playing in a league with similarly skilled people, and you progress only extremely slowly. That's why some geeks are much better in math at the age 12 than the average adult, but they have to learn and practice for long years to become a professional mathematician or to create a successful software business.