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There definitely needs to be a definitive sort order across languages. That it needs to be sensible is highly suspect. Emojis alone should signal that there fun

by setr 5y ago

There definitely needs to be a definitive sort order across languages. That it needs to be sensible is highly suspect. Emojis alone should signal that there fundamentally cannot be. The best they can do is define a sensible cross-language sort within a language family (e.g. Latin based) but even that’s highly suspect

a1369209993 5y ago
> The best they can do is define a sensible cross-language sort within a language family [...] but even that's highly suspect. How would you sort ["О", "Е", "Ζ", "Р", "Η", "С", "Κ"], for example?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tgv 5y ago
  You can sort according to the orthography of one and precisely one language. Words from another language would simply follow that, also if that language would sort them differently.
  - phendrenad2 5y ago
    Well you certainly can sort any language's glyphs, using strategies such as that one. But will it be useful outside of that language? People who speak German will be aware of their sort order, and people who speak Korean will be aware of their sort order, but only a small subset of the population who speak German and Korean fluently will care that you went the extra mile to sort properly when sorting a list containing German and Korean words. It almost seems as though showing a globally-sorted list containing multiple languages is an anti-pattern, and you should group by character set first. However, that might be a political boondoggle if German/Anglo names are always displayed before or after the Korean names. Hmmm...
    - tgv 5y ago
      My name is one of the last in the alphabet. Should I be offended now? Anyway, if you sort in German, Korean names will not be sorted as when you sort in Korean, but then German names will be somewhere else. Ç'est la vie. How else are you going to sort? By mapping everything to phonemes first? And what's the proper sorting order of phonemes? I'm sure German names will on average come either before or after Korean names in that case, too.

by setr 5y ago

a1369209993 5y ago

> The best they can do is define a sensible cross-language sort within a language family [...] but even that's highly suspect. How would you sort ["О", "Е", "Ζ", "Р", "Η", "С", "Κ"], for example?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tgv 5y ago
You can sort according to the orthography of one and precisely one language. Words from another language would simply follow that, also if that language would sort them differently.
- phendrenad2 5y ago
  Well you certainly can sort any language's glyphs, using strategies such as that one. But will it be useful outside of that language? People who speak German will be aware of their sort order, and people who speak Korean will be aware of their sort order, but only a small subset of the population who speak German and Korean fluently will care that you went the extra mile to sort properly when sorting a list containing German and Korean words. It almost seems as though showing a globally-sorted list containing multiple languages is an anti-pattern, and you should group by character set first. However, that might be a political boondoggle if German/Anglo names are always displayed before or after the Korean names. Hmmm...
  - tgv 5y ago
    My name is one of the last in the alphabet. Should I be offended now? Anyway, if you sort in German, Korean names will not be sorted as when you sort in Korean, but then German names will be somewhere else. Ç'est la vie. How else are you going to sort? By mapping everything to phonemes first? And what's the proper sorting order of phonemes? I'm sure German names will on average come either before or after Korean names in that case, too.