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Suicide is sad and tragic. That said, calling this "murder" is gross hyperbole and very selfish. How is the person speaking for the dead qualified to make this

Suicide is sad and tragic. That said, calling this "murder" is gross hyperbole and very selfish. How is the person speaking for the dead qualified to make this accusation? Where does the line of personal responsibility begin? If every grievance in one's life can be blamed on others, then we will all end up executed by those who would cast judgment. By the author's logic, it's not a stretch to call every suicide "murder." To the author: Yes, it is different than murder. Murder is when one person kills another knowingly and maliciously. Bullying and harassment, no matter how disgusting, is not murder. Close, yes, perhaps, but still undeserving of the hyperbole. This is not to say those harassing and bullying (if that did happen; I have not looked into the author's claims, nor do I follow the BSNES/Higan community) should not be held to account. As a culture, we must fight against this tide of hyperbole in every argument and every disagreement. It leads to one thing and one thing only: violence. We don't need to fracture society further by casting everyone who does bad things as a "terrorist." There are spectrums of crime and punishment; it's not binary.

staticassertion 5y ago
> How is the person speaking for the dead qualified to make this accusation? How are you? You clearly assert this isn't murder. Convincing someone to commit suicide has at least garnered a manslaughter charge in the US. edit: I also fall squarely in the "this is murder" side of this. This isn't even close to the first time KiwiFarms has done this - there is obvious intent, they seek people out to harass who are unstable, repeatedly. If you directly aim to kill someone, and your actions lead to their death, that is murder - a knife or a gun or doxxing as the weapon isn't relevant.
- nathanaldensr 5y ago
  Right, but that's my point: manslaughter is not murder, not are harassing and bullying considered murder. Obviously this is jurisdiction dependent, and some countries may actually consider it so. Regardless, my opinion is more colloquial in nature. I didn't intent to reference legal definitions when I opined about what murder is and isn't. Everyone is free to hold their own opinion, of course. That should go without saying.
  - staticassertion 5y ago
    > Everyone is free to hold their own opinion, of course. How convenient! Thanks for letting us all know, after you felt the need to respond to the announcement of someone's death, from a friend, that you didn't like their language! I'm out.
  - robocat 5y ago
    You could have made your argument in a less callous/thoughtless/disrespectful manner. Personally I think intent is the difference between the words murder versus manslaughter. If the intent of the people harassing Near was to cause their death, that fits my personal non-legal definition of murder. Legally or technically, perhaps you are correct, but the common usage of words doesn't always fit the autistically literal meaning. Edit: also if looks like this happened in Japan, so the legal definition of 殺人 might be different from your assumptions.
navjack27 5y ago
I've talked to Near personally a year ago when he reached out to me and all I have to say is how fucking dare you.
- nathanaldensr 5y ago
  I think you might be assuming my feelings on the topic. I've never met Near in person, so I can't speak one way or the other about them in that regard. I have used several of their emulators, though. Overall I thought the emulators were amazing. There's no need to direct your anger toward me. I'm responding to the author's specific use of terminology that I find hyperbolic. There's nothing wrong with that, nor does it diminish Near's contributions or his personal value or qualities.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    There is plenty of reason to direct anger at you. You are talking dismissively about something you, by your own admission, know nothing about. Something that has now caused the death of not one person, but several. You very seriously need to get right out of this conversation with your semantic arguments. They have zero relevance or place here, and they are distracting from and justifying utterly despicable behaviour. You may not mean to do that, but in practice that is what you are doing, and you need to stop doing it right now. You have been told several times now. Stop.
- BigsQuickly 5y ago
  Okay great, can you give confirmation of his identity and death? If he's dead then it can do no harm. Let's put a name to his accomplishments as well as this crime. Otherwise all we have are hollow accusations being thrown around. Before you get all high and mighty, just keep in mind that even though you claim to have known the man but none of us did. I'm just asking for something solid so we can have actual confirmation. You can't punish someone for murder without first proving that a murder took place. If the suicide took place days ago, it should be simple to confirm.
  - solimiano1984 5y ago
artificialLimbs 5y ago
It cannot be overstated enough that in the U.S. we seem to be absolving ourselves of personal responsibility to our great detriment. Many in the news media glorify victimhood, and our politicians are now often busy enshrining victimhood into law. It is sad that people are so hopeless and violent that they could perform such heinous acts as bullying and suicide. I believe teaching people about personal responibility and the value of taking responsibility for everything possible in one's life, including others, could negate much tragedy.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  What the fuck "personal responsibility" would stop a fucking hateful mob from coming after you, every day of ever year of your life? What fucking personal responsibility would fix that? Would fi the deep, deep despair in your soul it creates, that drives you take your own life to escape it? Where the fuck do you get off suggesting "personal responsibility" is the problem when an entire site is dedicated to ruining people's lives and driving them to suicide, and then cheering when that happens?
- happytoexplain 5y ago
  My opinion on the root cause is the opposite. We have developed a cult of what we call "personal responsibility", where many people find it acceptable to push someone toward death as long as you only do it using words, "for the lols", etc. Because it's their responsibility to, as insane as it sounds, simply not be affected! We've adopted a "I'm not touching you!" attitude toward adult interaction and morality. We have a real, growing cultural sickness rooted in emotional retardation and hatred. And to be clear, this hatred is a dangerous combination of petty and murderous, meaning: It's petty enough to be based on trivial things like "Are you affected at all by being provoked/bullied? Do you not fit our definition of 'normal' in any way?"; and yet despite that, it's serious enough to be murderous in its intent. Death, harm, or breakdown is the happiest result for these people. We have a comment in this very HN thread that says, with no editorializing, that what KiwiFarms does is just "gossip".
tracedddd 5y ago
It’s probably best to address concerns about hyberole and the increasing contrast of language in a neutral forum - for example a blog post unconnected with any particular recent event. The grieving don’t care for the topic and it comes across as callous, however well intended or correct you may be.
amanaplanacanal 5y ago
If you don’t know the facts of the case, as you admit, how can you judge whether his language is hyperbole or not?
celticninja 5y ago
As a culture perhaps we should fight against the type of negativity and hate that kiwifarms revels in. We should be saying that sort of behaviour is not ok and the people that undertake it are a real problem, whatever label you apply to them.
- BigsQuickly 5y ago
  Let's start with the negativity and hate that Twitter and Facebook revel in, first. If you want to solve the problem, let's start with the biggest offenders.
  - Gstrin 5y ago
    They won't, they actually just want a monopoly on the harassment and negativity. They're either pretending or they have a serious case of cognitive dissonance. Very weird that the "harmful people should be banned" crowds ALWAYS makes an exception for self-admitted pedophiles. It just goes to show that those clout-chasing liars don't care about making communities safer, they're harmful sadists who want to control and manipulate others so that they can freely abuse people themselves.
joepie91_ 5y ago
> if that did happen; I have not looked into the author's claims, nor do I follow the BSNES/Higan community Perhaps you shouldn't be trying to "both sides" this, then.

staticassertion 5y ago

> How is the person speaking for the dead qualified to make this accusation? How are you? You clearly assert this isn't murder. Convincing someone to commit suicide has at least garnered a manslaughter charge in the US. edit: I also fall squarely in the "this is murder" side of this. This isn't even close to the first time KiwiFarms has done this - there is obvious intent, they seek people out to harass who are unstable, repeatedly. If you directly aim to kill someone, and your actions lead to their death, that is murder - a knife or a gun or doxxing as the weapon isn't relevant.

nathanaldensr 5y ago
Right, but that's my point: manslaughter is not murder, not are harassing and bullying considered murder. Obviously this is jurisdiction dependent, and some countries may actually consider it so. Regardless, my opinion is more colloquial in nature. I didn't intent to reference legal definitions when I opined about what murder is and isn't. Everyone is free to hold their own opinion, of course. That should go without saying.
- staticassertion 5y ago
  > Everyone is free to hold their own opinion, of course. How convenient! Thanks for letting us all know, after you felt the need to respond to the announcement of someone's death, from a friend, that you didn't like their language! I'm out.
- robocat 5y ago
  You could have made your argument in a less callous/thoughtless/disrespectful manner. Personally I think intent is the difference between the words murder versus manslaughter. If the intent of the people harassing Near was to cause their death, that fits my personal non-legal definition of murder. Legally or technically, perhaps you are correct, but the common usage of words doesn't always fit the autistically literal meaning. Edit: also if looks like this happened in Japan, so the legal definition of 殺人 might be different from your assumptions.

navjack27 5y ago

I've talked to Near personally a year ago when he reached out to me and all I have to say is how fucking dare you.

nathanaldensr 5y ago
I think you might be assuming my feelings on the topic. I've never met Near in person, so I can't speak one way or the other about them in that regard. I have used several of their emulators, though. Overall I thought the emulators were amazing. There's no need to direct your anger toward me. I'm responding to the author's specific use of terminology that I find hyperbolic. There's nothing wrong with that, nor does it diminish Near's contributions or his personal value or qualities.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  There is plenty of reason to direct anger at you. You are talking dismissively about something you, by your own admission, know nothing about. Something that has now caused the death of not one person, but several. You very seriously need to get right out of this conversation with your semantic arguments. They have zero relevance or place here, and they are distracting from and justifying utterly despicable behaviour. You may not mean to do that, but in practice that is what you are doing, and you need to stop doing it right now. You have been told several times now. Stop.
BigsQuickly 5y ago
Okay great, can you give confirmation of his identity and death? If he's dead then it can do no harm. Let's put a name to his accomplishments as well as this crime. Otherwise all we have are hollow accusations being thrown around. Before you get all high and mighty, just keep in mind that even though you claim to have known the man but none of us did. I'm just asking for something solid so we can have actual confirmation. You can't punish someone for murder without first proving that a murder took place. If the suicide took place days ago, it should be simple to confirm.
- solimiano1984 5y ago

artificialLimbs 5y ago

It cannot be overstated enough that in the U.S. we seem to be absolving ourselves of personal responsibility to our great detriment. Many in the news media glorify victimhood, and our politicians are now often busy enshrining victimhood into law. It is sad that people are so hopeless and violent that they could perform such heinous acts as bullying and suicide. I believe teaching people about personal responibility and the value of taking responsibility for everything possible in one's life, including others, could negate much tragedy.

user-the-name 5y ago
What the fuck "personal responsibility" would stop a fucking hateful mob from coming after you, every day of ever year of your life? What fucking personal responsibility would fix that? Would fi the deep, deep despair in your soul it creates, that drives you take your own life to escape it? Where the fuck do you get off suggesting "personal responsibility" is the problem when an entire site is dedicated to ruining people's lives and driving them to suicide, and then cheering when that happens?
happytoexplain 5y ago
My opinion on the root cause is the opposite. We have developed a cult of what we call "personal responsibility", where many people find it acceptable to push someone toward death as long as you only do it using words, "for the lols", etc. Because it's their responsibility to, as insane as it sounds, simply not be affected! We've adopted a "I'm not touching you!" attitude toward adult interaction and morality. We have a real, growing cultural sickness rooted in emotional retardation and hatred. And to be clear, this hatred is a dangerous combination of petty and murderous, meaning: It's petty enough to be based on trivial things like "Are you affected at all by being provoked/bullied? Do you not fit our definition of 'normal' in any way?"; and yet despite that, it's serious enough to be murderous in its intent. Death, harm, or breakdown is the happiest result for these people. We have a comment in this very HN thread that says, with no editorializing, that what KiwiFarms does is just "gossip".

tracedddd 5y ago

It’s probably best to address concerns about hyberole and the increasing contrast of language in a neutral forum - for example a blog post unconnected with any particular recent event. The grieving don’t care for the topic and it comes across as callous, however well intended or correct you may be.

amanaplanacanal 5y ago

If you don’t know the facts of the case, as you admit, how can you judge whether his language is hyperbole or not?

celticninja 5y ago

As a culture perhaps we should fight against the type of negativity and hate that kiwifarms revels in. We should be saying that sort of behaviour is not ok and the people that undertake it are a real problem, whatever label you apply to them.

BigsQuickly 5y ago
Let's start with the negativity and hate that Twitter and Facebook revel in, first. If you want to solve the problem, let's start with the biggest offenders.
- Gstrin 5y ago
  They won't, they actually just want a monopoly on the harassment and negativity. They're either pretending or they have a serious case of cognitive dissonance. Very weird that the "harmful people should be banned" crowds ALWAYS makes an exception for self-admitted pedophiles. It just goes to show that those clout-chasing liars don't care about making communities safer, they're harmful sadists who want to control and manipulate others so that they can freely abuse people themselves.

joepie91_ 5y ago

> if that did happen; I have not looked into the author's claims, nor do I follow the BSNES/Higan community Perhaps you shouldn't be trying to "both sides" this, then.