3 ms·

A vote to support territorial integrity of Ukraine and invalidate on international level the 2014 referendum in Crimea sounds right about the same as a vote to

A vote to support territorial integrity of Ukraine and invalidate on international level the 2014 referendum in Crimea sounds right about the same as a vote to continue recognizing Crimea as part of Ukraine and not Russia.

sudosysgen 5y ago
No, it's quite different. It's not a vote on accepting jurisdiction, it's a vote on rejecting it, with the status quo being compatible with acceptance.
- strogonoff 5y ago
  The vote was on the UN resolution that reaffirms territorial integrity of Ukraine, thereby rejecting Russian jurisdiction over Crimea. The resolution was proposed by Canada, Ukraine (naturally) and others, and 100 countries voted in favor. What am I missing?
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    That abstaining means that you are fine with the status quo.
    - strogonoff 5y ago
      Status quo as it stands is Ukraine de jure in control of Crimea, and Russia de facto unlawfully occupying it. Voting against the resolution was an option. Presumably that means a country doesn’t necessarily believe Ukraine deserves to remain in control of this part of its territory. Zimbabwe and Belarus, among a few others, have voted against. China is the most prominent country among the few who abstained. The rest voted for Crimea being part of Ukraine.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        International law is a stupid and weak thing. Yes, the case for Ukraine controlling Crimea de jure is strong. But at the same time self-determination exists, and no one seriously contests that the majority of Crimeans would rather belong to Russia. It's not as cut and clear de jure as it may seem, international law almost never is. Russia does not de facto "unlawfully" occupy it, because law is not a matter of fact. It's not even under occupation anymore, it's almost entirely annexed now.
        strogonoff 5y ago
        You have made your own position clear, but as events indicate the developed world is holding a different view.
        baybal2 5y ago
        > But at the same time self-determination exists, and no one seriously contests that the majority of Crimeans would rather belong to Russia. Most Crimea hates Russia, and Russians (while being ethnically Russian at that.) It's not hard to understand that was spread as a part of propaganda campaign.

sudosysgen 5y ago

No, it's quite different. It's not a vote on accepting jurisdiction, it's a vote on rejecting it, with the status quo being compatible with acceptance.

strogonoff 5y ago
The vote was on the UN resolution that reaffirms territorial integrity of Ukraine, thereby rejecting Russian jurisdiction over Crimea. The resolution was proposed by Canada, Ukraine (naturally) and others, and 100 countries voted in favor. What am I missing?
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  That abstaining means that you are fine with the status quo.
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    Status quo as it stands is Ukraine de jure in control of Crimea, and Russia de facto unlawfully occupying it. Voting against the resolution was an option. Presumably that means a country doesn’t necessarily believe Ukraine deserves to remain in control of this part of its territory. Zimbabwe and Belarus, among a few others, have voted against. China is the most prominent country among the few who abstained. The rest voted for Crimea being part of Ukraine.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      International law is a stupid and weak thing. Yes, the case for Ukraine controlling Crimea de jure is strong. But at the same time self-determination exists, and no one seriously contests that the majority of Crimeans would rather belong to Russia. It's not as cut and clear de jure as it may seem, international law almost never is. Russia does not de facto "unlawfully" occupy it, because law is not a matter of fact. It's not even under occupation anymore, it's almost entirely annexed now.
      - strogonoff 5y ago
        You have made your own position clear, but as events indicate the developed world is holding a different view.
      - baybal2 5y ago
        > But at the same time self-determination exists, and no one seriously contests that the majority of Crimeans would rather belong to Russia. Most Crimea hates Russia, and Russians (while being ethnically Russian at that.) It's not hard to understand that was spread as a part of propaganda campaign.