3 ms·

I'm not sure why you are being downvoted. These carve-outs in 'freedom of speech' will most definitely be abused if history is any guide.

StandardFuture 5y ago
They are being downvoted because there are a scarily growing number of people who believe that as long as the tyranny is "on their side" then it is ok. Or perhaps, the downvoters are just sociopaths?
nl 5y ago
> These carve-outs in 'freedom of speech' will most definitely be abused if history is any guide. Which history is that? Genuine question - I'm aware of places where speech is suppressed because the justice system is not independent of the political system. I'm aware of cases where speech is suppressed by the threat of being sued by private individuals. But where are the cases where hate-speech carve-outs have been abused in democracies?
- neartheplain 5y ago
  Here in the United States, criticism of Israeli state policy as it affects Palenstians is often labeled antisemitic. Laws have been passed on that basis to proscribe the pro-Palestinean Boycott, Divest, and Sanctions movement [0]: >In the US, a large number of anti-BDS laws have been passed. As of 2020, 32 states have laws that prevent boycotts against Israel and a number of non-binding resolutions have been passed denouncing BDS. A majority of these have passed with strong bipartisan support. Two federal acts have been introduced, the 2017 Israel Anti-Boycott Act and the 2019 Combating BDS Act, both intended to deprive entities participating in boycotts of Israel of government contract work. In several states, these laws have been challenged on First Amendment grounds for violating citizens' freedom of speech. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions#Anti-BDS_laws_and_resolutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sancti...
- bccdee 5y ago
  There's a good overview of it here [1]. The author of the article has a lot of weird twitter opinions these days, but the incidents he's citing here are all real. [1]: https://theintercept.com/2017/08/29/in-europe-hate-speech-laws-are-often-used-to-suppress-and-punish-left-wing-viewpoints/ https://theintercept.com/2017/08/29/in-europe-hate-speech-la...
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    These events are real, but also more nuanced than how they are presented. For instance the ruling against activists boycotting Israel was based on them focusing on a whole country (with kind words like “Israel murderer”) which by definition will englobe unrelated individuals, in a shop targeted at the diaspora. Think about how it would look if today we had “fuck off China” protests in the middle of Chinatown.
    - bccdee 5y ago
      > In 2015, France’s highest court upheld the criminal conviction of 12 pro-Palestinian activists for violating restrictions against hate speech. Their crime? Wearing T-shirts that advocated a boycott of Israel — “Long live Palestine, boycott Israel.” If pro-Uighur activists wore t-shirts that said "long live Xinjiang, boycott China" in Chinatown, do you think they ought to be charged with a crime? Frankly, I find that idea appalling, and I find the conviction of those pro-Palestine activists appalling too.
      - makeitdouble 5y ago
        The center of the case is that they didn’t just wear “Long live Palestine, boycott Israel” shirts and silently shopped for milk. They did a tad more than that, enough to each get 1000 euros fines. Also it’s not like they’re now in concentration camps, they just got a slap on the hand. The whole ruling if you care: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/juri/id/JURITEXT000031374097/ https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/juri/id/JURITEXT000031374097/ The parent correctly warned for the article’s bias, I confirm the author is cherrypicking little parts and blow them up for dramatic effect.
UncleMeat 5y ago
These same carve outs have already existed for other media in Canada for decades and abuse does not seem to be a problem.

StandardFuture 5y ago

They are being downvoted because there are a scarily growing number of people who believe that as long as the tyranny is "on their side" then it is ok. Or perhaps, the downvoters are just sociopaths?

nl 5y ago

> These carve-outs in 'freedom of speech' will most definitely be abused if history is any guide. Which history is that? Genuine question - I'm aware of places where speech is suppressed because the justice system is not independent of the political system. I'm aware of cases where speech is suppressed by the threat of being sued by private individuals. But where are the cases where hate-speech carve-outs have been abused in democracies?

neartheplain 5y ago
Here in the United States, criticism of Israeli state policy as it affects Palenstians is often labeled antisemitic. Laws have been passed on that basis to proscribe the pro-Palestinean Boycott, Divest, and Sanctions movement [0]: >In the US, a large number of anti-BDS laws have been passed. As of 2020, 32 states have laws that prevent boycotts against Israel and a number of non-binding resolutions have been passed denouncing BDS. A majority of these have passed with strong bipartisan support. Two federal acts have been introduced, the 2017 Israel Anti-Boycott Act and the 2019 Combating BDS Act, both intended to deprive entities participating in boycotts of Israel of government contract work. In several states, these laws have been challenged on First Amendment grounds for violating citizens' freedom of speech. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions#Anti-BDS_laws_and_resolutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sancti...
bccdee 5y ago
There's a good overview of it here [1]. The author of the article has a lot of weird twitter opinions these days, but the incidents he's citing here are all real. [1]: https://theintercept.com/2017/08/29/in-europe-hate-speech-laws-are-often-used-to-suppress-and-punish-left-wing-viewpoints/ https://theintercept.com/2017/08/29/in-europe-hate-speech-la...
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  These events are real, but also more nuanced than how they are presented. For instance the ruling against activists boycotting Israel was based on them focusing on a whole country (with kind words like “Israel murderer”) which by definition will englobe unrelated individuals, in a shop targeted at the diaspora. Think about how it would look if today we had “fuck off China” protests in the middle of Chinatown.
  - bccdee 5y ago
    > In 2015, France’s highest court upheld the criminal conviction of 12 pro-Palestinian activists for violating restrictions against hate speech. Their crime? Wearing T-shirts that advocated a boycott of Israel — “Long live Palestine, boycott Israel.” If pro-Uighur activists wore t-shirts that said "long live Xinjiang, boycott China" in Chinatown, do you think they ought to be charged with a crime? Frankly, I find that idea appalling, and I find the conviction of those pro-Palestine activists appalling too.
    - makeitdouble 5y ago
      The center of the case is that they didn’t just wear “Long live Palestine, boycott Israel” shirts and silently shopped for milk. They did a tad more than that, enough to each get 1000 euros fines. Also it’s not like they’re now in concentration camps, they just got a slap on the hand. The whole ruling if you care: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/juri/id/JURITEXT000031374097/ https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/juri/id/JURITEXT000031374097/ The parent correctly warned for the article’s bias, I confirm the author is cherrypicking little parts and blow them up for dramatic effect.

UncleMeat 5y ago

These same carve outs have already existed for other media in Canada for decades and abuse does not seem to be a problem.