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Buying software without a trial makes me disinterested. I still want to learn using vim every day, but won't commit to this text editor/vsx-powered IDE, unless

by a3w 5y ago

Buying software without a trial makes me disinterested. I still want to learn using vim every day, but won't commit to this text editor/vsx-powered IDE, unless I find out that I have the guts to use it every day. Also, there is VIM mode for VS Code, I guess.

injidup 5y ago
Hand holding is still a thing here I guess. https://onivim.github.io/docs/for-developers/building https://onivim.github.io/docs/for-developers/building
- toastal 5y ago
  It's pretty nice to see such beginner-friendly documentation tbh.
gryn 5y ago
it seems to be open source there's a link in the page to the project's GitHub page. https://github.com/onivim/oni2 https://github.com/onivim/oni2
- mdaniel 5y ago
  Pedantically, I believe it's closer to "source available" than open source, since their license specifically adds a lot of restrictions on the end user
ddek 5y ago
> Also, there is VIM mode for VS Code, I guess. I feel like this is something said by people who are more invested in VS Code than vim. The main vim plugin for VS Code is straight trash.* It's slow, buggy, and unintuitive; while lacking the extensibility that vim has. At least IDEAVim, which has the same limitations of being built in another IDE, replicates enough of the common plugins to be pleasant. It's also worth noting that onivim is not VS Code repackaged. It is not an electron app, and it doesn't appear to use the monaco editor. They have apparently taken great design inspiration from VS Code, which I think is a fairly diffident decision. Overall, I'm looking at neovim nightly and not knowing why onivim is a thing. I can understand the appeal of a GUI vim, but implementing a vim backend is a monumental task if you intend to be compatible with existing vim plugins (and you should). Nvim 0.5 has native lua, and now freed from vimscript the quality of plugins is improving continuously. I just can't see a way for a 'third vim' - if you don't start with vimscript you won't be compatible, but if you do you're already outdated. * There are a few attempts to splice VS Code and neovim, all of these are awful.
- WiiManic 5y ago
  > but implementing a vim backend is a monumental task if you intend to be compatible with existing vim plugins We skipped that and haven't implemented any vim backend at all! We use/made libvim[1], which is just the vim source, that we've essentially turned into a library. So its the vim code base with terminal UI stuff stripped out, and an interface added for us to hook into it. The README of that repo has some good insight into that (including why we didn't use neovim here, as much as the team all loves nvim). We don't support vimscript stuff at the moment, but its in progress as all the vim source code is there to load/run it as normal, its just about integrating is properly into Oni2 (making sure keybinds are working, commands are properly loaded, packing stuff up nicely for distrib etc). (There is some other motivation bits in this doc[2]. Its outdated since we haven't edited it since before the project started, but it outlines the motivations we went in with etc). [1]: https://github.com/onivim/libvim https://github.com/onivim/libvim [2]: https://github.com/onivim/oni2/blob/master/docs/MOTIVATION.md https://github.com/onivim/oni2/blob/master/docs/MOTIVATION.m...
  - jnovek 5y ago
    “We skipped that and haven't implemented any vim backend at all ... so its the vim code base with terminal UI stuff stripped out, and an interface added for us to hook into it.” You took out the most important part! I don’t know about other people, but I became a vim user because I found myself configuring servers and needed to know a better text editor than nano. Vim is also my primary code editor these days but portability is still a killer feature.
    - lbotos 5y ago
      You are mis-interpreting what they did. They literally took vim, and built a ui around it. No re-implementation. It's Vim with a more modern frontend stack. You can go look at the libvim source and see it for yourself. The point of this is to bring Vim into more modern workflows, not but "vim compat" but literally... vim. Source: had some pull requests into libvim a while back to remove a lot of the various legacy compat features that don't make sense for libvim.
  - 5y ago
WiiManic 5y ago
Oni2 is available for use for free for non-commercial usage, it just needs building from source at the moment. The steps are in the user manual if anyone is interested: https://onivim.github.io/docs/for-developers/building https://onivim.github.io/docs/for-developers/building Partially that is a thank you to those who have supported our development, and partially its to help put up a small barrier to entry, just so we don't get too flooded with issues and feature requests! A public release is coming soon-ish, and can be used for non-commercial use.
- lasagnaphil 5y ago
  I found that it was incredibly painstaking to build though, it's quite a barrier. I wanted to try it out a bit before buying, but it seemed to consume a considerable amount of disk space (>20GB), along with downloading tons of NPM dependencies and giving out weird errors during building. Is there a particular reason why do you need such an amount of dependencies for building an editor?
rapind 5y ago
According to their FAQ it looks like they'll be offering a trial version once they hit v1. https://onivim.github.io/docs/other/faq#is-there-a-trial-version https://onivim.github.io/docs/other/faq#is-there-a-trial-ver...
steveklabnik 5y ago
I use the vim mode for VS: Code as my daily driver, and unlike the one sibling comment, don't think it sucks. I still purchased an Onivim 2 license. It's not far along enough for me to use daily yet, or at least, it wasn't last time I tried it out and I haven't had the time to look again, but I am excited for when it is. That said, when I did this it was a one-time cost, and it looks like now it's a Patreon thing. Still though, $10 is pretty cheap, and if you hate it, you can always cancel. Or at least, that's how I think about these things these days. Not everyone has $10 to spare on stuff like this, but I am fortunate to.

by a3w 5y ago

injidup 5y ago

Hand holding is still a thing here I guess. https://onivim.github.io/docs/for-developers/building https://onivim.github.io/docs/for-developers/building

toastal 5y ago
It's pretty nice to see such beginner-friendly documentation tbh.

gryn 5y ago

it seems to be open source there's a link in the page to the project's GitHub page. https://github.com/onivim/oni2 https://github.com/onivim/oni2

mdaniel 5y ago
Pedantically, I believe it's closer to "source available" than open source, since their license specifically adds a lot of restrictions on the end user

ddek 5y ago

> Also, there is VIM mode for VS Code, I guess. I feel like this is something said by people who are more invested in VS Code than vim. The main vim plugin for VS Code is straight trash.* It's slow, buggy, and unintuitive; while lacking the extensibility that vim has. At least IDEAVim, which has the same limitations of being built in another IDE, replicates enough of the common plugins to be pleasant. It's also worth noting that onivim is not VS Code repackaged. It is not an electron app, and it doesn't appear to use the monaco editor. They have apparently taken great design inspiration from VS Code, which I think is a fairly diffident decision. Overall, I'm looking at neovim nightly and not knowing why onivim is a thing. I can understand the appeal of a GUI vim, but implementing a vim backend is a monumental task if you intend to be compatible with existing vim plugins (and you should). Nvim 0.5 has native lua, and now freed from vimscript the quality of plugins is improving continuously. I just can't see a way for a 'third vim' - if you don't start with vimscript you won't be compatible, but if you do you're already outdated. * There are a few attempts to splice VS Code and neovim, all of these are awful.

WiiManic 5y ago
> but implementing a vim backend is a monumental task if you intend to be compatible with existing vim plugins We skipped that and haven't implemented any vim backend at all! We use/made libvim[1], which is just the vim source, that we've essentially turned into a library. So its the vim code base with terminal UI stuff stripped out, and an interface added for us to hook into it. The README of that repo has some good insight into that (including why we didn't use neovim here, as much as the team all loves nvim). We don't support vimscript stuff at the moment, but its in progress as all the vim source code is there to load/run it as normal, its just about integrating is properly into Oni2 (making sure keybinds are working, commands are properly loaded, packing stuff up nicely for distrib etc). (There is some other motivation bits in this doc[2]. Its outdated since we haven't edited it since before the project started, but it outlines the motivations we went in with etc). [1]: https://github.com/onivim/libvim https://github.com/onivim/libvim [2]: https://github.com/onivim/oni2/blob/master/docs/MOTIVATION.md https://github.com/onivim/oni2/blob/master/docs/MOTIVATION.m...
- jnovek 5y ago
  “We skipped that and haven't implemented any vim backend at all ... so its the vim code base with terminal UI stuff stripped out, and an interface added for us to hook into it.” You took out the most important part! I don’t know about other people, but I became a vim user because I found myself configuring servers and needed to know a better text editor than nano. Vim is also my primary code editor these days but portability is still a killer feature.
  - lbotos 5y ago
    You are mis-interpreting what they did. They literally took vim, and built a ui around it. No re-implementation. It's Vim with a more modern frontend stack. You can go look at the libvim source and see it for yourself. The point of this is to bring Vim into more modern workflows, not but "vim compat" but literally... vim. Source: had some pull requests into libvim a while back to remove a lot of the various legacy compat features that don't make sense for libvim.
- 5y ago

WiiManic 5y ago

Oni2 is available for use for free for non-commercial usage, it just needs building from source at the moment. The steps are in the user manual if anyone is interested: https://onivim.github.io/docs/for-developers/building https://onivim.github.io/docs/for-developers/building Partially that is a thank you to those who have supported our development, and partially its to help put up a small barrier to entry, just so we don't get too flooded with issues and feature requests! A public release is coming soon-ish, and can be used for non-commercial use.

lasagnaphil 5y ago
I found that it was incredibly painstaking to build though, it's quite a barrier. I wanted to try it out a bit before buying, but it seemed to consume a considerable amount of disk space (>20GB), along with downloading tons of NPM dependencies and giving out weird errors during building. Is there a particular reason why do you need such an amount of dependencies for building an editor?

rapind 5y ago

According to their FAQ it looks like they'll be offering a trial version once they hit v1. https://onivim.github.io/docs/other/faq#is-there-a-trial-version https://onivim.github.io/docs/other/faq#is-there-a-trial-ver...

steveklabnik 5y ago

I use the vim mode for VS: Code as my daily driver, and unlike the one sibling comment, don't think it sucks. I still purchased an Onivim 2 license. It's not far along enough for me to use daily yet, or at least, it wasn't last time I tried it out and I haven't had the time to look again, but I am excited for when it is. That said, when I did this it was a one-time cost, and it looks like now it's a Patreon thing. Still though, $10 is pretty cheap, and if you hate it, you can always cancel. Or at least, that's how I think about these things these days. Not everyone has $10 to spare on stuff like this, but I am fortunate to.